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Post by LorrB on Jun 2, 2011 10:30:26 GMT 9.5
That is adding salt to the wound. No doubt bought about by those who have never been severely abused.
I still have little tolerance for young lout drivers... my sister was knocked over and killed by one in a pedestrian crossing when she was just 18.
It took me quite a few years to forget his name. My aged mother still remembers it though.
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Post by mgc on Jun 2, 2011 10:47:33 GMT 9.5
the issue is not accountabillity of the individual, it is about learning from history.. what really happened and more important, why? knowing the facts could shed new (often darker) light on current matters..
u could compare it to learning how to play chess.. at first ull be checkmate within minutes, but when u start to understand the opponents moves, u can defend yourself better..
at some point we will overcome our flaws.. it will take a lot of time to get everybody to accept the same moral standards (and actually obey them)..
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Post by paul on Jun 2, 2011 11:00:33 GMT 9.5
.... I have come to believe this world with all its horrors is just as it is supposed to be. A testing ground,...... In principle that is correct. It seems that humans are put here unable to see the spiritual realities to see if a robust group can be developed for use in parts of Creation that are ill-conditioned. The difficulty seems to have arisen when other parties piggy-backed on to this experiment and made the darkness too great so that even the souls were troubled by lack of understanding. At least one positive intervention (rescue attempt) was subverted but I am hopeful that systemic events will progressively resolve the situation over the next 10 000 years - short period in human history. Current human attempts at planetary stewardship are a symptom of systemic events.
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Post by tamrin on Jun 2, 2011 12:47:50 GMT 9.5
Accountability. How can dead people be held accountable? The evil that men do lives on and must be worked through. Consider groups which were dispossessed and where their heirs are still disadvantaged, while the heirs of those at fault still benefit from the crime: Native Americans, indigenous Australians, holocaust victims, former slaves, colonized peoples whose riches, traditions and even languages were stolen or trashed.
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Post by tamrin on Jun 2, 2011 12:52:44 GMT 9.5
It seems that humans are put here unable to see the spiritual realities to see if a robust group can be developed for use in parts of Creation that are ill-conditioned. Conversely: We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience
Teilhard de Chardin
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Post by Stewart Edwards on Jun 2, 2011 17:40:29 GMT 9.5
Accountability. How can dead people be held accountable? The evil that men do lives on and must be worked through. Consider groups which were dispossessed and where their heirs are still disadvantaged, while the heirs of those at fault still benefit from the crime: Native Americans, indigenous Australians, holocaust victims, former slaves, colonized peoples whose riches, traditions and even languages were stolen or trashed. While not in any way the same league, what is happening re my home nation - Scotland, is interesting in this regard. There was a time that The English did us great harm, but we became part of the Union. Now many Scots want Indpendence again and at least in parts of my family the desire is strong. All practicalities aside (finance, economy, defence bases etc) it does seem ingrained to this day that "its the fault of the English". So tere certainly does seem to be some frustrations that need to be ironed out still. But it is a two way thing. Interestingly The Scots Government appears very happy to become a full member of the European Union if it leave the UK Union. So the issue isnt really so much about Independence, but Independence form England. Karmicly that is very interesting. For me I now live in Southern England, married to an English girl and with English children, and I can see benefits of the Union. Mind you, if you look at the meaning and history of both my names you can see Scots English links there ;D I can only hope that the karmic harmonisation of past fractures resolves itself to the mutual benefit of both Scotland and England. But this is one that does seem to be working itself out within my lifetime, and being both Scots and being part of the English Establishment for a couple fo decades now (albeit fringly) and with English family, it certainly makes me think. It has however been a useful plaform for me to reflect on other global karmic issues, as mentioned above, from the stance of understanding the conceptual positions of people with "history". Whether it is the US position in the world since WW2 or Middle East issues. Both are distinct and facinating areas to ponder on from a karmic perspective as reflected in global affairs. Must find myself a job where I can put this to some good use.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2011 17:46:19 GMT 9.5
So even a millennium is not enough to heal some wounds - particularly in the Middle East. In speaking of "generations," I think Smithee may have had in mind the Biblical verses describing the sins of the fathers being visited upon the children unto the third and fourth generation (e.g., Numbers 14:18). Correct.
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Post by tamrin on Jun 2, 2011 21:54:14 GMT 9.5
At least one positive intervention (rescue attempt) was subverted... Pray tell.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2011 18:04:40 GMT 9.5
At least one positive intervention (rescue attempt) was subverted... Pray tell. I too would like to know about this intervention and its subversion.
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Post by Henka on Jun 5, 2011 2:30:03 GMT 9.5
I too would like to know about this intervention and its subversion. So would I.
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Post by paul on Jun 5, 2011 6:07:48 GMT 9.5
If you wish to identify the event an inspection of the last 1000 years of European history will make it very plain. For example, list the 20 most profound humans of the last 1000 years.
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Post by tamrin on Jun 5, 2011 7:31:01 GMT 9.5
If you wish to identify the event an inspection of the last 1000 years of European history will make it very plain. For example, list the 20 most profound humans of the last 1000 years. Or you could tell us what you meant.
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Post by Henka on Jun 5, 2011 13:28:30 GMT 9.5
Still waiting...
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Post by LorrB on Jun 5, 2011 16:47:25 GMT 9.5
Hint: If we just take Jesus as an example, you often hear the word 'mission' applied to his work.
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Post by stewartedwards on Jun 5, 2011 17:19:27 GMT 9.5
Hint: If we just take Jesus as an example, you often hear the word 'mission' applied to his work. Indeed, but one has to be careful here. Perhaps the best way to illustrate this is to consider what Jews, Roman Catholics, some Evangelical Christians and some follower of Gnostic scriptures especially The Gospel of Thomas, may say about Jesus "mission". While different people argue about what he was here to do it is important to consider what he himself perhaps knew. As I know from my own persosnal experience people will happily tell you almost as a matter of fact that you have a divine mission and even on occassion what your mission is, the only person who really knows is you. I can only imagine that Jesus were he to be alive today, reincarnated in some body or another, that he would be sadly shaking his head at some of the stuff done in his name. My point is that there is always the assumption that the Divine Will is always to let Earth evolve (as if the Earth is the centre of everything as so very important to all of creation). It may be that the decision has been taken to support the human race out of puberty and on to the next cycle. But equally the decision could have been taken to simply let the human race get on with it knowing that this will lead to a resetting and a new start - Dinosaurs, humans, perhaps something else next with the human race becoming some fabled historical note.
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Post by tamrin on Jun 5, 2011 18:32:03 GMT 9.5
Hint: If we just take Jesus as an example, you often hear the word 'mission' applied to his work. Why a hint rather than a straight answer and final solution: Presumably Paul knows what he meant.
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Post by stewartedwards on Jun 5, 2011 22:32:26 GMT 9.5
Why a hint rather than a straight answer Possibly because Paul is trying to assist some of us to take a positive step forwards in understanding one aspect of life? It is my experience that esoteric growth comes far quicker by being forced to puzzle things out, than simply by being told. On an everyday level, I could tell you that I love you, and you may understand what that means. But if I acted in ways towards you that showed true love (and not simply spoken some words) and this got you thinking, you may begin to actually feel the love. There is a whopping difference to the resulting benefits to you me and to society. As Paul is talking about Divine missions I suspect, perhaps incorrectly, that is is trying to signpost the way and act as a key to help some people unlock doors leading to esoteric growth. Just as a lot of banter goes straight over my head and I dont even recognise it, such esoteric mentoring isnt apparent to everyone. But it is all about getting people to pause for thought, to touch their hearts and to let them find the will to reflect hard and walk positively forwards. Now Paul will tell us that he is simply being cantankerous and that I am an ejit ;D
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Post by mgc on Jun 6, 2011 0:42:25 GMT 9.5
how?
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Post by Henka on Jun 6, 2011 2:31:22 GMT 9.5
Why a hint rather than a straight answer Possibly because Paul is trying to assist some of us to take a positive step forwards in understanding one aspect of life? It is my experience that esoteric growth comes far quicker by being forced to puzzle things out, than simply by being told. On an everyday level, I could tell you that I love you, and you may understand what that means. But if I acted in ways towards you that showed true love (and not simply spoken some words) and this got you thinking, you may begin to actually feel the love. There is a whopping difference to the resulting benefits to you me and to society. As Paul is talking about Divine missions I suspect, perhaps incorrectly, that is is trying to signpost the way and act as a key to help some people unlock doors leading to esoteric growth. Just as a lot of banter goes straight over my head and I dont even recognise it, such esoteric mentoring isnt apparent to everyone. But it is all about getting people to pause for thought, to touch their hearts and to let them find the will to reflect hard and walk positively forwards. Now Paul will tell us that he is simply being cantankerous and that I am an ejit ;D Paul is just being obscure, as is his wont.
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Post by tamrin on Jun 6, 2011 5:45:48 GMT 9.5
Atonement. While the perpetrators may have died, their heirs live on, and unless those heirs sincerely (not begrudgingly) repudiate the crimes of their predecessors and make reasonable reparation (not just token gestures) for the suffering of the victims and of their dispossessed heirs, there can be no atonement.
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