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Post by tamrin on Sept 14, 2011 12:19:55 GMT 9.5
I think that Paul recommended a while back that people read Witnessed by Budd Hopkins. It has been some years since I read this book, but Pauls words had me dig out my copy and I flicked to an appendix that deals with the attacks on the account... [/size][/quote]
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Post by stewart edwards on Sept 14, 2011 14:33:04 GMT 9.5
Tamrin
I have read the skeptics cases before.
And while, and this may suprise you, I do take all sides of an issue seriously, I am, rightly or wrongly, more convinced by thecase for than the case against. Especially when a skeptical report seems to focus unduly on assassinating the characters involved.
One question that I ask was if you substitute "alien abduction" for "child abduction" would skeptics be so skeptical and so keen to assassinate characters?
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Post by tamrin on Sept 14, 2011 15:10:52 GMT 9.5
One question that I ask was if you substitute "alien abduction" for "child abduction" would skeptics be so skeptical and so keen to assassinate characters? Throughout history there have been moral panics involving child abductions: Fairies spirited them off; Jews sacrificed them and more recently we had a wide spread notion of systematic Satanic abuse. All stuff and nonsense.
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Post by paul on Sept 14, 2011 15:37:09 GMT 9.5
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Post by LorrB on Sept 14, 2011 16:00:33 GMT 9.5
One question that I ask was if you substitute "alien abduction" for "child abduction" would skeptics be so skeptical and so keen to assassinate characters? Throughout history there have been moral panics involving child abductions: Fairies spirited them off; Jews sacrificed them and more recently we had a wide spread notion of systematic Satanic abuse. All stuff and nonsense. If only if was all stuff and nonsense. Police rescue pregnant girls from Nigerian 'baby farm' Nigerian police have rescued seven pregnant teenagers from a hospital where they were being held hostage by staff who allegedly planned to sell their babies.
By Mike Pflanz, West Africa Correspondent 12:35AM BST 09 Oct 2008
Two nurses and the hospital's two owners were arrested and the girls, aged between 15 and 18, who had been held for up to six months, were taken into the care of state authorities.
It was the third time this year that so-called "baby farms" have been found in and around the south-eastern town of Enugu. In August, seven other girls were freed from a fake foster home, and 22 girls were rescued from another hospital in May.
The pregnant women were either abducted and taken to the Chief Dennis Memorial Hospital, or kidnapped as they arrived for doctor's appointments, according to police.
They were held hostage unable to leave until they give birth. Their babies are sold, reportedly for as little as £100, to child traffickers who later force them into child labour or prostitution syndicates.
A woman was jailed in Britain in May for smuggling a baby who was not her own into the country in an attempt to improve her chances of being given a council flat.
Tuesday's arrests in Nigeria followed a tip-off from a 17-year-old girl who managed to escape and raised the alarm with a passing member of the public.
"The woman was passing by the hospital, when the young girl approached her pleading for help," Sam Magaji, Enugu police commissioner, told Nigeria's Vanguard newspaper.
"The girl, Ifeoma Eze, narrated to the woman how she was dragged to the hospital and kept in confinement since the past six months awaiting to be delivered of her pregnancy.
"She told the woman that she managed to escape from the hospital because the inmates are never allowed to move outside the premises until they give birth."
It was not clear on Wednesday night whether the kidnapped girls's families had reported them missing.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/nigeria/3161451/Police-rescue-pregnant-girls-from-Nigerian-baby-farm.html
And there was a similar story in the Australian newspapers about a month ago only on this occasion they also said that some babes were sold for tribal ritual purposes.
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Post by LorrB on Sept 14, 2011 16:09:16 GMT 9.5
I believe that it is now illegal for medical schools to use childrens skeletons when it was discovered that in India some people were killing children (poor ones of course) for their skeletons.
I saw the photo of one huntsman dragging two small bodies along behind him, as if they were game, gun still in hand.
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Post by LorrB on Sept 14, 2011 16:41:21 GMT 9.5
Found it... Nigerian 'baby factory' raided, 32 teenage girls freed From correspondents in Lagos, Nigeria From: AFP June 02, 2011 11:57AM
NIGERIAN police have raided a home allegedly being used to force teenage girls to have babies that were then offered for sale for trafficking or other purposes, authorities said today. "We stormed the premises of the Cross Foundation in Aba three days ago following a report that pregnant girls aged between 15 and 17 are being made to make babies for the proprietor," said Bala Hassan, police commissioner for Abia state in the country's south-east.
"We rescued 32 pregnant girls and arrested the proprietor who is undergoing interrogation over allegations that he normally sells the babies to people who may use them for rituals or other purposes."
Some of the girls told police they had been offered to sell their babies for between 25,000 and 30,000 naira ($192) depending on the sex of the baby.
The babies would then be sold to buyers for anything from 300,000 naira to one million naira ($1920 and $6400) each, according to a state agency fighting human trafficking in Nigeria, the National Agency for the Prohibition of Trafficking in Persons (NAPTIP).
The girls were expected to be transferred to the regional NAPTIP offices in Enugu today, the regional head Ijeoma Okoronkwo said.
Commissioner Hassan said the owner of the "illegal baby factory" is likely to face child abuse and human trafficking charges. Buying or selling of babies is illegal in Nigeria and can carry a 14-year jail term.
"We have so many cases going on in court right now," said Ijeoma Okoronkwo.
In 2008, police raids revealed an alleged network of such clinics, dubbed baby "farms" or "factories" in the local press.
Cases of child abuse and people trafficking are common in West Africa. Some children are bought from their families to for use as labour in plantations, mines, factories or as domestic help.
Others are sold into prostitution while a few are either killed or tortured in black magic rituals. NAPTIP says it has also seen a trend of illegal adoption.
"There is a problem of illict adoption and people not knowing the right way to adopt children," said Ijeoma Okoronkwo.
Human trafficking is ranked the third most common crime after economic fraud and drug trafficking in the country, according to UNESCO. One weeps.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2011 17:43:31 GMT 9.5
One question that I ask was if you substitute "alien abduction" for "child abduction" would skeptics be so skeptical and so keen to assassinate characters? Pushing emotional buttons does not make wild claims any more believable.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2011 17:50:10 GMT 9.5
Throughout history there have been moral panics involving child abductions: Fairies spirited them off; Jews sacrificed them and more recently we had a wide spread notion of systematic Satanic abuse. All stuff and nonsense. If only if was all stuff and nonsense. Here we go again! What Phillip had said was that the moral panics involving abductions by fairies, Jews and Satanists were stuff and nonsense. Of course some children get abducted just as some adults get kidnapped.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2011 17:53:57 GMT 9.5
... would skeptics be so skeptical and so keen to assassinate characters? Thank you Phillip for putting up with the bullying, harassment and character assassination here to point out the elephant in the room. You have been more sinned against than sinning. A case of shooting the messenger I think.
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Post by tamrin on Sept 14, 2011 20:43:22 GMT 9.5
... would skeptics be so skeptical and so keen to assassinate characters? Thank you Phillip for putting up with the bullying, harassment and character assassination here to point out the elephant in the room. You have been more sinned against than sinning. A case of shooting the messenger I think. Thank you Bro. Alan, Please do not be concerned on my account: Only the contemptible fear contempt
François Duc de La Rochefoucauld
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Post by LorrB on Sept 15, 2011 9:28:54 GMT 9.5
If only if was all stuff and nonsense. Here we go again! What Phillip had said was that the moral panics involving abductions by ... Satanists were stuff and nonsense. .... tortured in black magic rituals. Stuff and nonsense?
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Post by LorrB on Sept 15, 2011 9:38:30 GMT 9.5
I am rather surprised to find Freemasons identifying with the words Contempt and Contemptible.
Even the worst among us are but Souls in error. Younger Brn in masonic terms.
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Post by paul on Sept 15, 2011 9:46:47 GMT 9.5
Years ago in my official capacity of that time I was contacted by a woman who maintained that she and her children were regularly abducted by her ex-husband and other men from the volunteer fire brigade. This was in connection with some religious group from Sydney.
She said that she and the children were drugged and that the abductors would swap names so that she had trouble providing coherent accounts of the events.
I was somewhat sceptical as she was not completely stable. Nevertheless I investigated and it turned out that her ex had been convicted for deprivation of liberty.
I spoke to her doctor and he said she was somewhat unstable but thought that the instability occurred as a result of what she had suffered.
As the volunteer fire brigades were outside my legislative scope and she had been regularly to the police, there was nothing for me to do.
I noticed however a year later that the case was in the news, but I forget the result.
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Post by tamrin on Sept 15, 2011 12:27:00 GMT 9.5
I am rather surprised to find Freemasons identifying with the words Contempt and Contemptible.
Even the worst among us are but Souls in error. Younger Brn in masonic terms. Had I originated the saying, I may instead have said something like, "Only the ridiculous fear ridicule," (but I'm not about to quibble with la Rochefoucauld). Remember too the context of the post: It was in relation to "bullying, harassment and character assassination" of ME.
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Post by tamrin on Sept 15, 2011 12:32:46 GMT 9.5
One question that I ask was if you substitute "alien abduction" for "child abduction" would skeptics be so skeptical and so keen to assassinate characters? Pushing emotional buttons does not make wild claims any more believable.Good point Alan! Another cheap tactic is to blow up an aside out of all proportion to its context, to run with it, and thereby distract from the point being made.
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Post by stewartedwards on Sept 15, 2011 15:23:15 GMT 9.5
Pushing emotional buttons does not make wild claims any more believable. Good point Alan! Another cheap tactic is to blow up an aside out of all proportion to its context, to run with it, and thereby distract from the point being made. Alternatively I may simply have been making a simple point. Ocams razor Tamrin, ocams razor. You are reading far to much into this.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2011 19:06:55 GMT 9.5
Good point Alan! Another cheap tactic is to blow up an aside out of all proportion to its context, to run with it, and thereby distract from the point being made. Alternatively I may simply have been making a simple point. Ocams razor Tamrin, ocams razor. You are reading far to much into this. What then was your simple point? How was the hypothetrical and sensational introduction of children to the thread meant add to your case except by the pushing of emotional buttons?
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Post by tamrin on Sept 15, 2011 20:43:09 GMT 9.5
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Post by Henka on Sept 16, 2011 2:53:28 GMT 9.5
Here we go again! What Phillip had said was that the moral panics involving abductions by ... Satanists were stuff and nonsense. .... tortured in black magic rituals. Stuff and nonsense? Never happened Lorr. The "Satanic Panic" here in the states caused all sorts of problems for Wiccans and other minority religions (Google the West Memphis Three). After extensive investigation, it was concluded that there was no network of baby sacrificing Satanists, that the false memories were implanted by... wait for it... Hypnotic regression itself! Whodathunkit!
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