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Post by paul on Sept 25, 2013 8:59:29 GMT 9.5
>They do not however seem to be able to achieve the third degree ultimately because they are not interested in union.
Some years ago I ran into Crowley in his post-mortem state. He was stuck on 5.4 (top of the personal mind) exercising his will as hard as he could to get out of the situation. He had been there for 60 years of Earth time. He was excessively grumpy with me so I left him to it. I noticed a few months later that someone had taken pity on him and told him the secret that opening the heart is the way forward.
The dark brethren, being self-centered, find it difficult to pass beyond the personality levels of the ladder.
We can see why Masonry has brotherly love as its first principle.
Thus we have found one of the ways of recognising Masonry.
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Post by LorrB on Sept 25, 2013 9:12:40 GMT 9.5
Hear, Hear! -or should I say- See, See!
Maybe I should just settle for Know, Know.
Happy to report that our 100 year old A406, small though we be, scores well in Brotherly Love.
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Post by stepnwolf on Sept 26, 2013 11:49:56 GMT 9.5
>Also at a higher level if you are involved in any way with balance then you must balance dark and light I had a relevant dream - hence my proposition that the overseer of occult schools may be beyond Light and Dark. It seems that human initiates following the dark path learn control of their physical and emotional energies and can become genuine second degree initiates. They do not however seem to be able to achieve the third degree ultimately because they are not interested in union. The dark human initiate eventually, over quite some lives, becomes fatigued with the lack of warmth in their life and over quite some more lives may develop giving relationships with other humans. At this point they may resume their climb of Jacob's Ladder. After a lifetime of seeing things as either light or dark, it is indeed difficult not to see the dichotomy on the path as either the good side or the bad side, particularly if years have been spent trying to be good and not being very good at it. If it's true that we will all end up on Jacob's Ladder what's the hurt a little self-indulgence like beer binges or an orgy once and a while? I've been taught that the dark side taints anything it touches and should be avoided at all costs. And yet it's proposed that a master of the wisdom directs/controls the dark side. That really is hard to swallow. To suggest that initiates of the dark side can attain a second degree under any circumstance is very disappointing too. Right now it sounds to me that proponents of this system may be deluding themselves, making excuses for dark side behavior. It is also possible that my Christian background has colored my view in a very negative way. As I search for more light maybe my view will change. After all nothing remains static not even the highest truth.
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Post by paul on Sept 26, 2013 13:07:57 GMT 9.5
> If it's true that we will all end up on Jacob's Ladder what's the hurt a little self-indulgence like beer binges or an orgy once and a while?
The process of learning to control the lower energies is not a process of suppression. The lesser intelligences within the human need to form a brotherhood of mutual support and cooperation. Thus if one of our internal brethren is feeling unloved and/or unable to express, it can be quite valuable to indulge those aspects in a moderate way.
>I've been taught that the dark side taints anything it touches and should be avoided at all costs.
I was approached recently by a female Mason who was having significant difficulties including great fatigue and thought that she was under dark attack. She had got to the point of not mentioning her travel plans to other Masons in case they were sending dark energies.
After some conversation (over the phone) I noticed that her light body was attached to a dark body - just behind her physical body and formed the hypothesis that she had unresolved dark aspects that she was rejecting but those aspects were claiming attention.
So I had her visualise the dark body and give it love. Immediately she started to feel warm tingling in her physical body. That sensation was the subtle energy flows (chi/prana) resuming and becoming stronger in her physical body. She got quite cheerful.
I think her problem arose from rejection of her own darkness rather than embracing and transforming it.
Each of us quite properly has light and dark within us. The dark takes and uses the energy necessary to build our bodies and light puts those bodies to a greater use. (This pattern exists at all levels of Manifestation)
The process of balancing the dark with the light takes some time. If the light is excessive then the human will likely burn out from giving while not taking the space and energy to rebuild the light body and the physical body. In some situations that might well be evil.
If the darkness is excessive the human may distort all around for its own benefit. That too may be evil.
>To suggest that initiates of the dark side can attain a second degree under any circumstance is very disappointing too.
Self control is necessary to achieve results - no matter whether the human prefers the light or the dark.
>proponents of this system may be deluding themselves
Most human followers of the dark are indeed deluding themselves - their path has severe limits and their biographies are mostly tragedies.
There are however small numbers of beings incarnated as humans who quite properly work within the dark flows. There are many more who do so from delusion and/or by capture by beings of greater darkness. Those who are captured are entitled to compassion. Often families are captured over generations.
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Post by LorrB on Sept 26, 2013 16:03:07 GMT 9.5
-> Those who are captured are entitled to compassion. Often families are captured over generations.
One only has to look at the family life of some of our 'criminals' .. they never had a chance (or so it seems). One can't imagine they would be judged by the same yardstick as another who was born into a loving/caring family.
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Post by stewartedwards on Sept 26, 2013 17:14:17 GMT 9.5
After a lifetime of seeing things as either light or dark, it is indeed difficult not to see the dichotomy on the path as either the good side or the bad side, particularly if years have been spent trying to be good and not being very good at it. Indeed, and just to muddy the water even further, is considered to be good can depend on the time and the place. eg 200 years ago slavery was accepted as being good, now it mostly isn't. Women in some parts of the world today have to live with men who are considered to be good is they effectively control them, and bad if they give them freedom etc. Sadly there is little absolute and a lot of relativity depending on perspective, time and location Stepnwolf. Again I agree Stepnwolf. It is a hard one to get your mind around, but easier when you work from your heart. We all have bad inside us (even if just loosing our tempter once in a while or being tempted by stuff that our society may frown upon [which can vary greatly between generations in a society]). Clearly Stepnwolf all of us need to minimise the bad stuff we do. That is a given. However the darkerside of humanity is very powerful and is there for a reason - to aid experience. We just need to learn to balance it with our lightside. It does take a lot of work and if you get too far into the light you might find yourself totally ineffective to operate in this world. The darker pulls eg of money, along with frustrations etc will tug at you but it is possible to master them, but that does not mean eradicating them - after all they are there for a reason. It is my experience that if you can come to understand your darker side you can then balance it, generally speaking. Sometimes it is not easy though. While it isn't currently available I once wrote a book explaining how I did such things. For what it is worth, at the moment I am struggling with two such dark issues, and one (excessive eating) is doing my head in as every avenue I try I appear to be loosing - yet it is something that I have in the past mastered very well (I lost 7.5 stone - but about 4 of those have gone back on over the years since I got spinal stenosis and stopped exercising while the doctors got to the bottom of it - but I am now exercising hard again). So Stephwolf, the best thoughts that I can offer is simply to be the best person you can be, learn from mistakes, understand why dark things happen [sometimes you need to drill down a couple of levels] and then incorporate and adapt, working from the heart to maintain balance. But as with all balances sometimes it will wobble, and the external structure of what is good and bad is both location and time specific and you need to be aware of that.[eg an American might think that a bloke in middle east or asia is bad and needs to be killed for national security, yet that said bloke might only be reacting to drone strikes that killed his family - who is right? Who is doing the bad thing? Both might be trying to get revenge or to prevent a foreign nation harming their people.]
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Post by cwhite on Sept 27, 2013 11:08:28 GMT 9.5
Light vs Dark Good vs Bad Fusion vs Fission...
Inhaling vs Exhaling, Too much of either will surely lead you to Asphyxia. Not healthy.
The magician used to be a juggler...
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Post by LorrB on Sept 27, 2013 13:02:57 GMT 9.5
Light vs Dark Good vs Bad Fusion vs Fission... Inhaling vs Exhaling, Too much of either will surely lead you to Asphyxia. Not healthy. The magician used to be a juggler... .. with a funny hat. You are a crafty person
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Post by LorrB on Sept 27, 2013 13:22:08 GMT 9.5
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Post by stepnwolf on Sept 29, 2013 21:07:25 GMT 9.5
[.. with a funny hat. You are a crafty person [/quote] The hat has been transformed into a more obvious symbol of infinity above the head. The white band encircling the head represents purified thought that the Magician must have in order to use the 4 tools on the table. His position represents "as above so below." Red roses and white lilies represent his garden of emotion and thought.
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Post by stepnwolf on Sept 29, 2013 21:31:21 GMT 9.5
It is my experience that if you can come to understand your darker side you can then balance it, generally speaking. Sometimes it is not easy though. While it isn't currently available I once wrote a book explaining how I did such things. For what it is worth, at the moment I am struggling with two such dark issues, and one (excessive eating) is doing my head in as every avenue I try I appear to be loosing - yet it is something that I have in the past mastered very well (I lost 7.5 stone - but about 4 of those have gone back on over the years since I got spinal stenosis and stopped exercising while the doctors got to the bottom of it - but I am now exercising hard again). So Stephwolf, the best thoughts that I can offer is simply to be the best person you can be, learn from mistakes, understand why dark things happen [sometimes you need to drill down a couple of levels] and then incorporate and adapt, working from the heart to maintain balance. But as with all balances sometimes it will wobble, and the external structure of what is good and bad is both location and time specific and you need to be aware of that.[eg an American might think that a bloke in middle east or asia is bad and needs to be killed for national security, yet that said bloke might only be reacting to drone strikes that killed his family - who is right? Who is doing the bad thing? Both might be trying to get revenge or to prevent a foreign nation harming their people.] Thank you both, Stewart and Paul, for the light you have shed on this thorny problem (for me) of good and evil. It sounded so right when I read it this time. It does appear that I've been carrying around an awful lot of baggage, doesn't it, just trying to be gooder.
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Post by paul on Jan 9, 2014 12:54:28 GMT 9.5
Although European Freemasons generally disavow fraternal organisations from China, there are some interesting correspondences to European Masonry. Here we have the divine rulers with square and compasses, the sun, the moon and the stars. The female (Nuwa) is regarded as having created humanity. I note that both are represented as being half human half serpent and that Osiris and the widow Isis are sometimes depicted with scales. While there are commonalities between Hongmen and Masonic rituals this is regarded by Europeans as a symptom of Chinese traditional societies having copied London Masonry. "the "working tools" or ceremonial devices were a sword, axe, square and compasses. No aprons of a masonic nature were worn although candidates for initiation had their left trouser leg rolled up to the knee....Members today will also admit to a variation on the original blood oath." freemasonry.bcy.ca/history/chinese_freemasons/The key criticism perhaps is: that Chinese Freemasonry does not derive from "architecture in general or King Solomon's Temple". This criticism appears to be based on believing that modern Freemasonry is derived from stone masons and Jewish historical accounts. It seems a rather narrow criticism, for example Moses is supposed to have conducted a lodge in the desert wanderings before KS and his temple. What metaphor would Moses have used: the House of Light? There are of course other theories of Masonry, and it may be possible that the founders of the ancient mysteries did so in several lands.
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Post by james KB on Jan 9, 2014 15:31:19 GMT 9.5
I have sometimes wondered about the favoured children being called - Is...Ra...El
Isis, Ra and the Els come to mind.
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Post by paul on Jan 9, 2014 17:40:46 GMT 9.5
It is a bit tricky decomposing English representations of a language without vowels and then comparing that with Greek versions of Egyptian names. Nevertheless the basic point is a good one. There is much to be learned from names. For example the Egyptian for Isis is usually Ast which means Throne. Thus she was identifiable purely by indication of function - and the throne appears in her usual hieroglyph The semi-round is a loaf of bread
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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2014 8:07:33 GMT 9.5
...Osiris and the widow Isis are sometimes depicted with scales. Here is Isis with scales
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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2014 8:11:58 GMT 9.5
And here is Osiris in scales
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Post by paul on Feb 27, 2015 13:31:19 GMT 9.5
So we have discovered that brotherly/sisterly love is an essential characteristic of Masonry. What else?
How about orderliness?
What about group action?
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Post by sammy on Mar 1, 2015 22:35:16 GMT 9.5
I just now have caught up to the end of this thread, and a great one it has been. Just last night though I was contemplating the meaning of the half circle, even thought of starting a thread about it. From what I have been able to understand it is the letter T and also has the meaning Earth, this symbol is used in conjunction with others to describe the different parts of it. I have noticed though sometimes this half circle is round side up or round side down. I have also noted commonly when round side down, there is another glyph sitting/standing on top of it.
Before I go ranting hypotheticals, does anyone know any more about this symbol and its uses?
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Post by paul on Mar 2, 2015 10:55:01 GMT 9.5
Combined with a circle the letter T can be used to manage energy flows, including flow reversal
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Post by sammy on Mar 2, 2015 14:59:04 GMT 9.5
Very cool but not quite what I was wondering. I was curious as to the half circle in connection to another person, and also if the reverse symbol had a different meaning.
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