Alexander Piatigorsky
Guest
|
Post by Alexander Piatigorsky on Jun 22, 2013 20:49:43 GMT 9.5
"In its form and structure the text of the Masonic Manual strictly follows the almost ubiquitous general pattern of the world’s ritual instructions. Recently I staged a curious though quite elementary, experiment. I made a copy of a couple of its pages, deleted all references to Freemasonry, replaced them with xs, ys and zs, and showed this piece of text to several scholars, asking them (after having established that none of them had anything to do with Masonry) for their opinion on its origin and character.
The first, Professor D., an authority on Zoroastrian religion, said: 'This is very similar to a late, and rather degenerate version of a certain group of Medieval Zoroastrian rituals.'
The second, Dr. C., a specialist in Tibetan religion and northern Buddhism, remarked: 'The form is absolutely the same as that of the classical Sogshods (Buddhist Tantrist Ritual Manuals) of the seventeenth or eighteenth century. More than that, some passages even look as if they were literally translated from the Tibetan.'
The third, Professor E., a renowned orientalist, returned it to me with a cynical laugh, saying: 'The text from which you claim to have extracted these pages does not exist. You must have faked it since it is far too standardized and common to all religions to be genuine'."
|
|
|
Post by paul on Jul 14, 2013 9:42:52 GMT 9.5
>some passages even look as if they were literally translated from the Tibetan
This is an interesting argument for Freemasonry having ancient origins independent of stone masons.
What other signs are there of ancient rituals absorbed into and/or modified for Masonry?
|
|
|
Post by paul on Jul 20, 2013 8:23:32 GMT 9.5
What other signs are there of ancient rituals absorbed into and/or modified for Masonry? Striking the wardens is probably a relic of the mysteries - passing the guards into the (relative) darkness of the underworld
|
|
|
Post by paul on Aug 28, 2013 12:30:29 GMT 9.5
Moses supposedly held a lodge in the desert. Presumably it was Egyptian - KST did not exist. How would we recognise Moses' ritual as Masonic? Any ideas?
|
|
|
Post by stepnwolf on Aug 30, 2013 11:24:00 GMT 9.5
Moses supposedly held a lodge in the desert. Presumably it was Egyptian - KST did not exist. How would we recognise Moses' ritual as Masonic? Any ideas? Moses? A Lodge in the wilderness? It's the first I've heard of it. Considering how the Hebrews were treated at the hands of the Egyptians, I rather doubt the Jews received anything Egyptian very kindly. I have it on good authority that they did not even allow mention in the OT of the cat sacred to the Egyptians. I'd be more inclined to think that sacred gatherings in the desert might have centered on the Hebrew religion rather than on anything foreign. Their mysteries, if they had them, would possibly be the antecedents of Cabala and Merkabah mysticism and not the symbolism of the building trade. After settling in the Promised Land, the Jews may have developed masonic-like mysteries, although that sounds rather far-fetched.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Aug 30, 2013 12:17:25 GMT 9.5
Exodus 33:7
And Moses took the tabernacle, and pitched it without the camp, afar off from the camp, and called it the Tabernacle of the congregation. And it came to pass, that every one which sought the LORD went out unto the tabernacle of the congregation, which was without the camp.
The proposition is that the tabernacle in the wilderness was also a temple for ritual. And it seems reasonable to suppose that when the LORD was not present that ritual could have occurred. This would have been before KST and therefore the ritual would have had other symbolism - possibly The House of Light.
>sacred gatherings in the desert might have centered on the Hebrew religion rather than on anything foreign.
Do you regard Abraham as foreign? He was from a Sumerian town and would have known all about the Sumerian gods Ea, Baal, On as recorded in HRA and RC.
|
|
|
Post by stepnwolf on Sept 3, 2013 21:00:52 GMT 9.5
Exodus 33:7 And Moses took the tabernacle, and pitched it without the camp, afar off from the camp, and called it the Tabernacle of the congregation. And it came to pass, that every one which sought the LORD went out unto the tabernacle of the congregation, which was without the camp. The proposition is that the tabernacle in the wilderness was also a temple for ritual. And it seems reasonable to suppose that when the LORD was not present that ritual could have occurred. This would have been before KST and therefore the ritual would have had other symbolism - possibly The House of Light. >sacred gatherings in the desert might have centered on the Hebrew religion rather than on anything foreign. Do you regard Abraham as foreign? He was from a Sumerian town and would have known all about the Sumerian gods Ea, Baal, On as recorded in HRA and RC. I seem to recall that Moses had trouble with his people who wanted to worship an object foreign to the cult of Yahweh. Is it likely that he would introduce foreign gods into the sacred rites of the temple in the wilderness when the Golden Calf received such a negative reaction beforehand? It would seem that the Hebrews often ran after gods with more bling than the austere Jehovah. But a leader always brought them back to the Jewish god, sometimes by brute force. According to one protestant chronology Abraham died at the age of 175 in 2183 BC. We have to add “more or less,” since there are no reliable dates for his birth or death. Now Moses died in 1271 BC, giving a span of over 900 years. Considering the history of the craft in modern times as an example, is it likely that the foreign gods of Abraham, father of the Jews, would have persisted in the Jewish mysteries up to the time of Moses? It seems doubtful. As an instructive tradition among Masons, Moses holding a Lodge in the wilderness can be permitted, even encouraged, but as history it seems to be rather less reliable.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Sept 4, 2013 7:52:45 GMT 9.5
>is it likely that the foreign gods of Abraham, father of the Jews, would have persisted in the Jewish mysteries up to the time of Moses? Ezekiel Chapter 8 1 And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell there upon me. 2 Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of his loins even downward, fire; and from his loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as the colour of amber. 3 And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy. 4 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, according to the vision that I saw in the plain. 5Then said he unto me, Son of man, lift up thine eyes now the way toward the north. So I lifted up mine eyes the way toward the north, and behold northward at the gate of the altar this image of jealousy in the entry. 6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations. 7 And he brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, behold a hole in the wall. 8 Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the wall: and when I had digged in the wall, behold a door.9 And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here. 10 So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, portrayed upon the wall round about. 11 And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up. 12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth. 13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do. 14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these. 16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east. The tears for Tammuz appear on early Masonic tracing boards/cloths as the tears of Isis. And of course Masons look to the East. Tammuz is a Sumerian god. He is wept for by his wife Inanna (Isis?) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammuz_%28deity%29
|
|
|
Post by paul on Sept 4, 2013 8:03:27 GMT 9.5
Here some examples of the Tears of Isis
|
|
|
Post by cwhite on Sept 7, 2013 10:44:16 GMT 9.5
Jesus wept.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Sept 7, 2013 10:54:55 GMT 9.5
>Jesus wept.
".. 35 Jesus wept. 36 So the Jews said, “See how he loved him!” ..... 43 When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out."
Thus we have the first raising of the New Testament.
The Lord of Life (Horus) raised Asar (Osiris) and Jesus raised Lazarus.
Ast (Isis) wept for Asar and Jesus wept for Lazarus.
Thus the pattern repeats.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Sept 22, 2013 8:41:28 GMT 9.5
Albert Mackey: Freemasonry is a science—a philosophy—a system of doctrines which is taught, in a manner peculiar to itself, by allegories and symbols. This is its internal character. Its ceremonies are external additions, which affect not its substance. www.gutenberg.org/files/11937/11937-h/11937-h.htmIf Masonic ceremonies are external additions what is the real Masonry? Can the real Masonry be accessed without the rituals? Is passing through the "external additions" sufficient to become a true brother?
|
|
|
Post by stepnwolf on Sept 22, 2013 11:32:46 GMT 9.5
Albert Mackey: Freemasonry is a science—a philosophy—a system of doctrines which is taught, in a manner peculiar to itself, by allegories and symbols. This is its internal character. Its ceremonies are external additions, which affect not its substance. www.gutenberg.org/files/11937/11937-h/11937-h.htmIf Masonic ceremonies are external additions what is the real Masonry? Can the real Masonry be accessed without the rituals? Is passing through the "external additions" sufficient to become a true brother? These suggestions run contrary to most of what I believed about the Craft -- until now! But, "if Masonic ceremonies are external additions," then I have to revise my thinking radically. ! And with that, the 2nd and 3rd questions have meaning too. What can we call Masonry without its rituals? Masonic lore? Now we can we ask the 2nd question. I see Masonic Lore as an amalgam of ideas, traditions and facts, accessible to study as separate items of knowledge. The ritual is the framework which unifies the parts into a whole presentation of Lore. The answer the 2nd question, then, is yes but it is exceedingly more difficult. What makes a true brother? Proficiency in external ritual is hardly the answer. Acquisition of titles, powers and stations to some make a Brother true but these are only externals. In some lodges reference is made to the HOATF, which sounds rather elitist to me and should have no influence in finding a true brother. A true masonic brother, I suspect, is one who has passed through the external additions and has acquired the Lore. A Masonic brother needs both. Other masters in other traditions may become a "true" brother, but not a true Masonic brother.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Sept 22, 2013 12:15:00 GMT 9.5
We are told that we can use the working tools in a "moral" sense. We usually consider the word "use" to be metaphorical and the "working tools" to be literal, and happily moralise upon them.
Perhaps it is the other way around. The "working tools" veil inner structures that can be used to tell the Real from the Unreal. Thus we enter into the Masonic Science.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Sept 22, 2013 17:20:28 GMT 9.5
... In some lodges reference is made to the HOATF, which sounds rather elitist to me and should have no influence in finding a true brother. Do you think the GAOTU rules lodges directly? Or could there be an intermediary? The usual TS & LDH identification of the HOATF may be incorrect. Perhaps the functional identification is sufficient without attaching a human incarnation to it. A true masonic brother, I suspect, is one who has passed through the external additions and has acquired the Lore. A Masonic brother needs both. Other masters in other traditions may become a "true" brother, but not a true Masonic brother. There is a landmark/tradition of Grand Masters being able to make a Mason on sight. Does that presuppose that a true Mason can exist without the external ritual? I recall a dream long ago where there were many fraternal organisations represented in a large auditorium. Each group sat with their own, in their own regalia. Perhaps the true brethren (of both genders) meet out of the body where human Grand Lodges do not make the rules. I recall my eldest son, at age of 4 or 5, being at a lodge practice. The brethren were practicing the processing in. He went to the storeroom and brought out a sword and formed up at the head of the procession (the correct place for the tyler) and proceeded in front of the procession, holding the sword correctly, squaring the corners and watching out of the corner of his eye to ensure the brethren were keeping up. I asked him how he knew to do this. He said he ran his own lodge at night out of the body. In later years he lost the memory of this.
|
|
|
Post by stepnwolf on Sept 23, 2013 22:50:46 GMT 9.5
>Do you think the GAOTU rules lodges directly? Or could there be an intermediary? In anti-masonic literature writers seem to think that the GAOTU was the god we masons worshiped as opposed to the God mentioned in the Bible. As an EA I was taught that this was merely the masonic way of referring to God and I would learn two more names as I advanced to the 3°.
And I question the use of the word “rules.” I think I prefer “presides,” if anything. God blesses our assemblies, or the GAOTU presides over our Lodges, linking the below with the above. If there is an intermediary, it is the RWM who is empowered to rule his Lodge with wisdom. Of course, this doesn't always happen.
And the HOATF? I rather think that is an invention of CWL and possibly AB. They did seem to populate the universe with a variety of personalities. However, and I wish I knew more about thought forms, it seems that there is a substantial thought form for a HOATF, created by his admirers over the years.
Yes, there is a landmark of making Masons on sight. It would be a practical move, too, when in the early days there were still few Freemasons in an area to form a Lodge. Make Freemasons of some men on sight, form a Lodge, and the Craft grows rapidly.
>Does that presuppose that a true Mason can exist without the external ritual? Frankly, I don't know. I'd like to think that such a Bro. could exist, but at the same time I'd like to think Bros. would provide for what is missing. I am thinking of MP Hall, who certainly had the Lore before he was initiated into the Craft.
|
|
|
Post by stewartedwards on Sept 23, 2013 23:42:04 GMT 9.5
And the HOATF? I rather think that is an invention of CWL and possibly AB. They did seem to populate the universe with a variety of personalities. However, and I wish I knew more about thought forms, it seems that there is a substantial thought form for a HOATF, created by his admirers over the years. Could I add that there is also, in my experience, a strong anti-HOATF within the masonic world as well. To me the issue seems to be connected with whether you see Freemasonry as a man made physical organisation or whether you see it as being more of a Divine gift that has endured throughout the ages, under different names but it is the teaching and helping those who are ready along the way. A bit of an over simplification from an external observer, but I have seen fury generated over this issue, and I am not so sure why some masons get so hot under the collar about it - if its not part of their masonry so be it, but that does not mean to say that it is not a valuable element for someone else. The thing (I think) to remember is that if you take the view that it is the inner readiness of the person that is of key importance, [and that names are just tags that change over time a societies rise and fall] the HOATF might not be all that bothered about (1) being put on a pedestal, (2) the destructive petty politics of the masonic world today, because he might (1) see beyond Freemasonry as a physical structure having a direct connection with God and with ordinary people, (2) understand that those who are ready can be found throughout all societies and are not confined to a certain social class or religion or grouping, so might see "true freemasons" in a much wider perspective including some in the conspiracy world or in religions that really don't like Freemasonry etc. And he might be more concerned with ensuring that the keys and signposts needed for future generations are laid than in any one masonic fraternity with a shelf life? But then again my speculation could be complete nonsense. Thought: The HOATF might be shedding a tear for the state that the masonic world has got itself into today - which can be seen to be a bit like bairns arguing in a playground saying "I'm right and you are wrong," "my dad is bigger than your dad" etc. I would bet though that he is [if he exists] is enabling those individuals and lodges that really are true by keeping the ancient energy pathways as clear as possible, so that those lodges that rise up can connect with the divine source/Gods blessing/whatever you want to call it. Also I might be misremembering, but I am sure that around the time of the Millennium I read from a web search that a Mason (in America I think) had come out as being the "one", I remember his picture in his regalia on the website about him. Wonder what happened to him. Anyhow whoever he is I am sure he will have his fingers crossed for the masonic world.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Sept 24, 2013 7:59:31 GMT 9.5
In the HPB/AAB tradition El Morya is regarded as the head of all esoteric/occult schools for humans. The name El Morya may be translated (assuming a Hebrew context) as "the divine teacher of awe-ful things"
It is not commonly asserted but it may be that both dark and light schools can come under the same leadership.
|
|
|
Post by stewartedwards on Sept 24, 2013 15:08:22 GMT 9.5
In the HPB/AAB tradition El Morya is regarded as the head of all esoteric/occult schools for humans. The name El Morya may be translated (assuming a Hebrew context) as "the divine teacher of awe-ful things" It is not commonly asserted but it may be that both dark and light schools can come under the same leadership. Paul, I suspect, though I can not offer any rational reasoning for it, that you are correct. I don't know about names or terminology, but I am convinced that the "same leadership" [for want of a better phrase] monitors and distributes esoterc knowledge across the board, and that Freemasonry is but one [valuable] strand of this. I also suspect that to be effective said leadership would need to have an understanding of both darkness and light, for human hearts have both the seeds of darkness and the flame of light within them (eg a wife beater being very nice to others or a concentration camp guard looking after his family well while gassing others etc). Also at a higher level if you are involved in any way with balance then you must balance dark and light. And people do often say that the knowledge is pure its what humans do with it that can cause problems. Then again I could be talking utter nonsense.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Sept 24, 2013 15:44:19 GMT 9.5
>Also at a higher level if you are involved in any way with balance then you must balance dark and light
I had a relevant dream - hence my proposition that the overseer of occult schools may be beyond Light and Dark.
It seems that human initiates following the dark path learn control of their physical and emotional energies and can become genuine second degree initiates.
They do not however seem to be able to achieve the third degree ultimately because they are not interested in union.
The dark human initiate eventually, over quite some lives, becomes fatigued with the lack of warmth in their life and over quite some more lives may develop giving relationships with other humans. At this point they may resume their climb of Jacob's Ladder.
|
|