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Post by paul on Feb 18, 2013 12:11:44 GMT 9.5
As we know Masonry takes many forms around the world, some Christian, others Deist, and some Atheist.
Further, the ritual has varied over the ages. The reformation in the 18th century took on social characteristics of the time such as exclusion of women. If Masonry were reformed today it might include women and indeed move its legends to a more inclusive basis.
So how do we know what is the core of Masonry?
That question was particularly relevant a few years ago in England when the HRA ritual was pruned.
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Post by LorrB on Feb 18, 2013 13:01:21 GMT 9.5
You are referring to The Veils?
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Post by paul on Feb 18, 2013 13:07:07 GMT 9.5
I believe that the English Royal Arch was changed to the distress of many "At an historic meeting of Supreme Grand Chapter in October (see pages 22-26), major changes to the Royal Arch ritual were approved and come into effect immediately." www.mqmagazine.co.uk/issue-12/p-04.php
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Post by paul on Feb 19, 2013 7:55:16 GMT 9.5
How hard can it be to recognise Masonry?
All that is required is a Grand Lodge recognised by UGLE! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by LorrB on Feb 19, 2013 8:40:22 GMT 9.5
Over the weekend I was presented with a beautiful silver medallion by a visiting European mason who is also a member of a group of combined Grand Lodges of Europe. These masons meet on regular occasions, a different country on each occasion. All European Grand Lodges are represented with the exception of UGLE.
I will have more details of this group shortly (translated into English.) I am mightily impressed and encouraged that at least masons talk to each other in one area of the world.
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Post by paul on Feb 20, 2013 11:30:04 GMT 9.5
We have not made much progress with this.
Moses supposedly held a lodge in the desert. Presumably it was Egyptian - KST did not exist. How would we recognise Moses' ritual as Masonic?
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Post by paul on Feb 26, 2013 8:30:43 GMT 9.5
Does Masonry need to be labelled as such before it can be recognised?
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Post by paul on Feb 27, 2013 12:10:39 GMT 9.5
>NSAC Declaration of Principles
I would like to think that there is a set of principles that constitutes the core of Masonry, independently of the form of the ritual.
In a slightly old-fashioned context these might be something like:
- brotherhood of humanity under the fathership of God - spiritual immortality of humans - obligation to work towards the divine plan.
Taking that formulation as a working example, it might be that not all Grand Lodges are fully compliant.
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Post by paul on Mar 5, 2013 12:16:38 GMT 9.5
So probably there is a set of principles at the core of Freemasonry. Is there anything else?
Is a ritual necessary? If not, is there any induction or commitment process?
Is group work necessary?
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Post by stepnwolf on Mar 8, 2013 0:43:07 GMT 9.5
Paul, LOLFS When to me the issue is some truths need to be withheld from people so they do not harm themselves and others till their are ready, controls are definitely needed, as some knowledge exposes truths so deep that humans can almost become undone! That reminds me of an occasion when in the flush of youth (not yet 30) 2 companions and I went into the depths of a Florida swamp to summon a demon and force him to disclose the location of treasure. Can you imagine that! We had spend months manufacturing the tools and weapons we would need. (An important part of any work.) We were deposited on a hummock and in the dark and silence of the swamp we began the ritual. The demon didn't fully manifest itself, but I saw enough to convince me that this sort of activity was not for me. We spent the rest of the night, complaining about our failure, until the boat picked us up in the morning. I could feel the entity still trying to get through, but he was dealing with stupid humans and finally gave up. This is another example of how failure became a positive element in our lives.
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Post by stepnwolf on Mar 8, 2013 0:59:43 GMT 9.5
How hard can it be to recognise Masonry? All that is required is a Grand Lodge recognised by UGLE! Is there a little irony in that remark? It does seem to me that the UGLE has gotten too big for its britches, as we say in the southern US. It has pride of place, but was not even in existence in the union of the first 3 London lodges. It has donned the cloak of infallibility, while possibly professing a more modest place in the history of Freemasonry. The Grand Jurisdictions of the world look to the UGLE for validation as a Masonic entity. In the 21st century we no longer need such approval. To quote from another tradition: by their fruits you shall know them.
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Post by paul on Mar 8, 2013 5:58:29 GMT 9.5
>Is there a little irony in that remark?
Quite correct. If there have been time immemorial lodges then a Grand Lodge is not required.
Of course time immemorial lodges might have been a device to get around explaining that the self-declared Grand Lodge was actually breaking away from a previous Grand Lodge that then was written out of the histories.
The more fundamental point perhaps is that the true Charter for a lodge is recognition by the GAOTU.
However with the loss of the genuine secrets few brethren can demonstrate the presence of such a Charter, although many would be sensitive to its presence or absence.
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Post by stepnwolf on Mar 9, 2013 7:08:42 GMT 9.5
So probably there is a set of principles at the core of Freemasonry. Is there anything else? Is a ritual necessary? If not, is there any induction or commitment process? Is group work necessary? I was about to say that uniformity of ritual was an earmark of the Craft, but upon reflection that really isn't so. UGLE does allow differences in the Craft degrees, although the Emulation working seems to be favored. Wherever there is a L. of Instruction there are also pressures toward uniformity. There seems to be some tolerance of local variations in any of the Rituals. Beside the Emulation working in ULGE, a Bro. can find the West End, the Oxford, Universal, Bristol working and others. In the time I was in London, the Droit Humain offered meetings using the Lauderdale, Emulation, Irish or Scotch workings. And I understand there are more available. In the U.S. Le Droit Humain there was pressure to use what we called the Adyar working, collated by AB & CWL. In the beginning of the American Federation rituals were in Italian and French to accommodate the BB coming from these countries. Subsequently there was the North American ritual and LL using it have about disappeared. Old-line grand lodges in the US generally seem to be less accepting of variations in the LL. within their jurisdictions. So we can say that variation in the ritual aspect of Freemasonry is an landmark of the Craft, yet the content is similar.
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Post by paul on Mar 9, 2013 7:36:49 GMT 9.5
>yet the content is similar
The Hiram legend may have replaced the raising of Noah by his sons. That in turn may have replaced earlier raising scenarios e.g. Asar (Lazarus) by Horus the Lord of Life (Jesus).
I think that the raising is essential to Masonic ritual - although it is only done in symbolic form in modern mainstream Masonry. From what I have seen in ancient Egypt the candidate was driven out of the body by chanting and taken by some senior brethren out into the solar system where s/he saw the full sun (meridian) even though it was night at the temple.
After that the new MM had no fear that death was the end.
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Post by LorrB on Mar 9, 2013 12:05:34 GMT 9.5
And would this lack of fear that death was the end make good men even better? I think so. For a start I think that we might become less concerned with obtaining worldly goods and temporal power for the sake of it. We might be much more likely to consider the bigger picture when making decisions.
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Post by joseph on Mar 9, 2013 19:54:30 GMT 9.5
"Our birth is but a sleep and forgetting...trailing clouds of glory do we come from God, who is our home". I like that Lorr! So "all life moves towards perfection", i like this even better. Have a nice day ya all!
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Post by LorrB on Mar 10, 2013 7:32:30 GMT 9.5
Hello joseph, love it when you post here, especially when it is such a complimentary post Have you read Wordworth's poem? I can find it for you if you like.
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Post by stepnwolf on Mar 13, 2013 0:09:15 GMT 9.5
Rumi, a mystic, poet, promulgator of the famous sect of Sufi of Islam says:
Love has nothing to do with the five senses
Love has nothing to do with the five senses and the six directions: its goal is only to experience the attraction exerted by the Beloved. Afterwards, perhaps, permission will come from God: the secrets that ought to be told will be told with an eloquence nearer to the understanding of these subtle confusing allusions. The secret is partner with none but the knower of the secret: in the skeptic's ear the secret is no secret at all.
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Post by paul on Mar 13, 2013 7:20:08 GMT 9.5
Idries Shah maintains that Sufism (such as expressed by Rumi) is the basis of much of Freemasonry. I am not sure however that Sufism is the total of Masonry.
For example there is a reason for stating that the Freemasons' lodge extends from E to W and N to S and from the center/surface of the Earth to the Heavens, and that is because Masons have group bwork to do there. Is there such a concept in Sufism?
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Post by paul on Mar 15, 2013 10:28:19 GMT 9.5
"Pope Francis has warned the Catholic Church would become "a compassionate NGO" without spiritual renewal."
That might seem to be a problem for much of Masonry.
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