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Post by paul on Sept 22, 2011 20:17:22 GMT 9.5
Where in the greater scheme of Creation do the Earth humans fit?
I was taught by a Church that humans are the pinnacle of Creation (other than Angels).
Do we have any basis other than religious for believing that?
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Post by tamrin on Sept 22, 2011 20:43:56 GMT 9.5
"Earth Humans" ... moving on. We are what we are. We are the gods of the cells and organs which consitute ourselves and of the parts which are encompassed and exceeded by our minds. We are parts of greater wholes of and are expressions of the One Life, the One Mind. By analogy, we may rightly say an egg is perfect as it is but that does not deny the possibility of growth, transformation and, indeed, of hatching into a wider, unimagined and, for it, unimaginable, reality. What a piece of work is a man, how noble in reason, how infinite in faculties, in form and moving, how express and admirable in action, how like an angel in apprehension, how like a god!
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Post by paul on Sept 23, 2011 5:16:15 GMT 9.5
... We are what we are. ...hatching into a wider, unimagined and, for it, unimaginable, reality. .. So where is it that humans fit?
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Post by tamrin on Sept 23, 2011 5:30:41 GMT 9.5
So where is it that humans fit? I thought I had addressed that question I see I need to spell it out for you: Q. Where do we fit? A. Somewhere in between (not the most "low" or the Most High): We are gods of our sub-systems and sub-systems of our gods.
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Post by paul on Sept 23, 2011 7:44:36 GMT 9.5
Given all the other intelligent entities in existence, how important are humans? Physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually?
Are humans bystanders in the great scheme of Existence? Do humans have some contribution to make beyond their own welfare?
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Post by tamrin on Sept 23, 2011 8:08:07 GMT 9.5
Important to whom? In "Running God's Plan" (arcane reference) we have our place. I suggest a clue may be inferred from Genesis 3:22. I expect you will not be satisfied with the proposition that our aspiration is moral. To recapitulate: At the subatomic level we come into and out of existence and our aspiration is self-maintenance; at the material level we have self-maintenance and our aspiration is self-growth; as crystals we have self-growth and our aspiration is self-replication; as plants we have self-replication and our aspiration is self-direction (tropism); as animals we have self-direction and our aspiration is self-consciousness; as humans we have self-consciousness and our aspiration is self-control (morality); adepts have self-control and their aspiration appears to us as self-sacrifice...
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Post by paul on Sept 23, 2011 8:27:43 GMT 9.5
... adepts have self-control and their aspiration appears to us as self-sacrifice... To what does an adept self-sacrifice?
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Post by tamrin on Sept 23, 2011 8:58:24 GMT 9.5
Consider Erik Erikson's Stages of Development, which, I hesitate to add (knowing your bizarre take on the subject), I personally liken to Jacob's ladder. The three principle staves or rounds of which are Faith, Hope and Charity. As an infant we develop Faith in the integrity of our carers or we may suffer despair and fail to thrive; we then develop the aspiration or Hope that we may become like those we respect; finally we develop a sense of integrity or Charity, doing right because it is right and, if necessary, being willing to die for principles we hold dear. On reflection it is seen to be that Charity in which we had Faith as infants.
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Post by paul on Sept 23, 2011 9:01:59 GMT 9.5
So, just to be clear, to what do adepts self-sacrifice?
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Post by tamrin on Sept 23, 2011 9:11:58 GMT 9.5
They "appear" to us to sacrifice themselves to the greater good.
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Post by paul on Sept 23, 2011 9:43:20 GMT 9.5
So what is that greater good? Is it the comfort of the human race?
Or is there some contribution that the human race is expected to make to something beyond itself?
For example, the human race has decided over the last decade that it will be a responsible steward of the planet. Does that indicate some greater good beyond the human race.
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Post by tamrin on Sept 23, 2011 10:21:09 GMT 9.5
So what is that greater good? Whatever principles those with integrity hold dear. For Bodhisattvas it may be the welfare and development of all sentient beings. For arhats it may be enough to simply proceed, profoundly knowing there is but One and thus no one else to assist.
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Post by paul on Sept 23, 2011 10:30:09 GMT 9.5
....it may be the welfare and development of all sentient beings.... And that of course brings us back to the question: where do humans fit into the scheme of things? Are humans bystanders to the rest of Existence? Does the human race function as a part (organ) of some greater living entity?
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Post by tamrin on Sept 23, 2011 10:36:56 GMT 9.5
You responded to only one of the alternative answers (I believe I implied their might be more). Asking how we organically fit into the system/s to which we contribute is a bit like asking our hypothetical, transcendental liver cell how s/he contributes to us. Even so, I suspect we may have a role in Gaia being self-aware.
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Post by paul on Sept 23, 2011 10:45:09 GMT 9.5
...Even so, I suspect we may have a role in Gaia being self-aware. I agree.
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Post by cwhite on Sept 24, 2011 0:33:18 GMT 9.5
I feel that the fabric of reality is just a grid of energy. And that, as humans, our purpose is to build on and refine the pattern. Light workers.
The most basic human drive is procreation. The purpose of procreation is to add more energy to the matrix, more thread for the fabric.
Another human drive is spiritual/technological advancement. The purpose of spiritual/technological advancement is for the refinement of energy, the quality of the thread.
I think that a humans purpose is to maintain and perfect this grid.
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Post by paul on Sept 24, 2011 6:44:25 GMT 9.5
What if the grid were alive - organic - aware?
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Post by paul on Oct 1, 2011 6:51:27 GMT 9.5
Could the human species be a biological component rather than a spectator to Existence?
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Post by tamrin on Oct 1, 2011 12:27:50 GMT 9.5
Could the human species be a biological component rather than a spectator to Existence? As I have been saying (the same is true of all species and, indeed, all sentient beings).
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Post by paul on Oct 1, 2011 12:44:47 GMT 9.5
Which component might the human race be?
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