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Post by cwhite on Aug 30, 2011 23:14:43 GMT 9.5
John Edward Mack is awesome!!! google JEMI
You'll find a great site!
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Post by cwhite on Aug 30, 2011 23:15:32 GMT 9.5
What do you think fueled his passion??
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Post by stewartedwards on Aug 30, 2011 23:16:15 GMT 9.5
Tamrin it would be far better for you to pick half a dozen easily contactable abductees/credible experts yourself and go from there. Stewart, the ball is in your court. Whether or not you accept your burden of proof, you at least need to state what is to be considered and not just generally but giving some particular incidents which together would give rise to that general topic. We can cite and debunk cases of our choosing but what would that prove? Only that we hadn't considered the cases you consider to be genuine. The cases that I consider to be genuine are largely irrelevant, the ones that policemen etc talk about, whether personally or as witnesses, now they have some credibility to them. They are not that hard to find. You could start by Pauls suggestion of Witnessed, for whatever you think of Budd Hopkins, he does cite several police witnesses who saw the whole cabuddle, and if memory serves me correctly one may have been abducted himself. You could try asking Budd for more info on this. There are others that are equally easy to find. The issue is not me proving abductions that is a false flag. All that I have done is researched the area and listened to those who have direct first hand experience of it, or witnessed it. You may sleep better at night choosing to disbelieve and that is your right. Equally it is my right to believe the word of multiple policemen, etc. (Though having just read Nick Pope of ex UK Ministry of Defence ufo desk fame admit on his website (latest news) that the UK government routinely lied to us about the level of investigation they do into ufos (remember it was his job to do it) I do wonder )
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Post by stewartedwards on Aug 30, 2011 23:21:38 GMT 9.5
What do you think fueled his passion?? Who? John Mack? I didnt know him that well, only meeting him once at a conference interval where we had a one to one chat (with two geezers allegedly running a couple of rows behind us taping it ) I can only talk about myself, it facinates me. Not abductions per see, but the whole ufo phenomenon. I just find it difficult to accept that the human race who still act like bairns in the playground can be the most advanced species out there.
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Post by cwhite on Aug 30, 2011 23:34:22 GMT 9.5
Concerning my fathers story, it was the only ufo-esque experience in my family(that I'm aware of).
Concerning the feminine part of my family....well.... I think the ufo storys would be more believable than what I have to say about that.
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Post by stewartedwards on Aug 30, 2011 23:45:41 GMT 9.5
Forgot to ask again, if anyone here feels that they are more highly professionally qualified or experienced in psychiatry than John Mack into assessing abductees then I am listening, eagerly. But if you are just a screenname, forgive me for being skeptical as to why I should believe you over John. Concerning my fathers story, it was the only ufo-esque experience in my family(that I'm aware of). Concerning the feminine part of my family....well.... I think the ufo storys would be more believable than what I have to say about that. Depends who is listening Cwhite. These things are far far more common than most people realise, because most people keep stum due to ridicle. I just feel sorry for the families of those who ridicule for they could easily have family members suffering in silence afraid to confide in their loved ones. For such things really are much more common than most people realise. Just as in the masonic world you can find lodges where members semi-openly talk about energies in lodge, and you have other lodges whose members cant comprehend it and ridicule it. Having felt energies in both closed and now in open lodge I know who I believe.
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Post by cwhite on Aug 31, 2011 0:13:20 GMT 9.5
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Post by Henka on Aug 31, 2011 3:30:32 GMT 9.5
But if you are just a screenname, forgive me for being skeptical as to why I should believe you over John. This attack is reminiscent of a certain individual that goes by the initials BC. It is unworthy of you Stewart. I've known about John Mack for years. Anyone who ever listened to Art Bell will know who he is.
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Post by Henka on Aug 31, 2011 3:33:18 GMT 9.5
Kids. Still doesn't prove what they saw were extraterrestrials.
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Post by cwhite on Aug 31, 2011 4:11:35 GMT 9.5
"Kids. Still doesn't prove what they saw were extraterrestrials."
But 60 kids seen the same thing. In all respect, I ask, what else could it be?
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Post by stewartedwards on Aug 31, 2011 4:13:06 GMT 9.5
But if you are just a screenname, forgive me for being skeptical as to why I should believe you over John. This attack is reminiscent of a certain individual that goes by the initials BC. It is unworthy of you Stewart. I've known about John Mack for years. Anyone who ever listened to Art Bell will know who he is. Let me chew on your words for a few days or so Henka. I didnt write this as an attack, and the fact that you have taken it as such may mean that I need to reflect a bit more when I type. So let me chew on it while I work out how my thoughts did not translate all that well. Anyhow apologies where due. If I have erred here, until I can see it for myself, can I thank you for pointing it out Henka, for by helping people realise when they err we can progress.
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Post by Henka on Aug 31, 2011 5:21:39 GMT 9.5
This attack is reminiscent of a certain individual that goes by the initials BC. It is unworthy of you Stewart. I've known about John Mack for years. Anyone who ever listened to Art Bell will know who he is. Let me chew on your words for a few days or so Henka. I didnt write this as an attack, and the fact that you have taken it as such may mean that I need to reflect a bit more when I type. So let me chew on it while I work out how my thoughts did not translate all that well. Anyhow apologies where due. If I have erred here, until I can see it for myself, can I thank you for pointing it out Henka, for by helping people realise when they err we can progress. I'm not particularly worried about it. The fact is that some of us are using the screen-names to protect our identities from those who would cause us harm, like the aforementioned individual. He always tries to bait others into revealing who they are in order to use what they say, out of context, against them. I am not saying you would do so, just keep in mind there is a reason some of us choose to remain anonymous. You actually are familiar with me from another forum.
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Post by Henka on Aug 31, 2011 5:24:23 GMT 9.5
"Kids. Still doesn't prove what they saw were extraterrestrials." But 60 kids seen the same thing. In all respect, I ask, what else could it be? Government operated electrogravitic craft, with the pilots disguised as classic "aliens" to spread disinformation. I know people in the Intelligence community. They are quite capable of such things.
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Post by tamrin on Aug 31, 2011 6:13:29 GMT 9.5
I do like when people use Wiki as as info source I met the man at a conference, talked to him one on one, listened to him explain his views to the packed auditorium. He screened out every single abductee who was ill in some way before they got to him, a world renowned expert in the field, psychiatrist. While he never said yes "that person has been abducted by aliens" which he could not do for he was not there at the time of the abduction, he did say very clearly that something real had happened to them. And that "real" was not illnes of any physical or mental form. Actually Wikipedia has outperformed the online Encyclopedia Britannica in a large study of the quality of its information. I could go to other sources (more reliable than the ones believers are wont to cite), however you concede: 'While he never said yes "that person has been abducted by aliens".' So there doesn't seem to be much point in pursuing this pilloried professor.
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Post by tamrin on Aug 31, 2011 6:25:08 GMT 9.5
So he didn't advocate there was a physical reality to these reported abductions. Instead an externalised, inner mystical experience. So he feels they were somewhat akin an unintended "Vision Quest." In other words, not madness in the popular, demonised perception of the term but rather an inner psychic (i.e., emotional) event for which modern, Western society ill prepares its citizens. Very interesting but I would still consider it a Mental Health issue. The MH community tends to split in terms of the prevalence of such issues (one branch believes that normal is sane, another that we all are mad to some degree, and others are on the continuum in between).
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Post by tamrin on Aug 31, 2011 6:41:06 GMT 9.5
May the saints (including Elvis) preserve us!
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Post by tamrin on Aug 31, 2011 11:20:06 GMT 9.5
Forgot to ask again, if anyone here feels that they are more highly professionally qualified or experienced in psychiatry than John Mack into assessing abductees then I am listening, eagerly. If anyone else here has any qualifications and professional psychiatric experience, their contribution would be welcome.
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Post by LorrB on Aug 31, 2011 12:48:10 GMT 9.5
So he didn't advocate there was a physical reality to these reported abductions. Instead an externalised, inner mystical experience. So he feels they were somewhat akin an unintended "Vision Quest." In other words, not madness in the popular, demonised perception of the term but rather an inner psychic (i.e., emotional) event for which modern, Western society ill prepares its citizens. Very interesting but I would still consider it a Mental Health issue. The MH community tends to split in terms of the prevalence of such issues (one branch believes that normal is sane, another that we all are mad to some degree, and others are on the continuum in between). So Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha and all other sainted people and prophets were just common folk with mental health issues?
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Post by LorrB on Aug 31, 2011 12:54:48 GMT 9.5
Forgot to ask again, if anyone here feels that they are more highly professionally qualified or experienced in psychiatry than John Mack into assessing abductees then I am listening, eagerly. If anyone else here has any qualifications and professional psychiatric experience, their contribution would be welcome. The few that I have met socially are a bit 'different'. Nutty professor types who found it difficult to socialise. Q - how come you place so much emphasis on qualifications and professional status here whilst totally dismissing the qualifications and professional status of those who witnessed ufo's and abductions? Whats good for one should be good for the other.
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Post by paul on Aug 31, 2011 13:04:46 GMT 9.5
When I was young my church taught me (implicitly) that the human race was the center of Creation and that no other species was intelligent, merely clever.
This avoided a range of theological problems including whether human-equivalents in other systems might not have had problems in their Gardens of Eden and hence be spiritually superior to Earth humans.
So the concept of aliens was theologically difficult and it was better that there were no aliens at all.
I have failed to detect any modern logic that leads to the conclusion that no humanoid aliens exist at all yet such logic must exist as many rational humans take that position.
Would anyone care to expound the secular logic for my edification?
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