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Post by tamrin on Aug 30, 2011 6:27:44 GMT 9.5
Each of us may choose their own beliefs. Let us be tolerant of others' freedom. So is it just a matter of faith, giving meaning to one's life?
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Post by paul on Aug 30, 2011 6:34:01 GMT 9.5
Apparently it is for some. That provides each us a chance to practise tolerance.
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Post by tamrin on Aug 30, 2011 6:37:40 GMT 9.5
Then, as before, I will hold back, unless and until this matter of faith becomes a factual premise in some argument.
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Post by Henka on Aug 30, 2011 12:04:24 GMT 9.5
Apparently it is for some. That provides each us a chance to practise tolerance. Tolerance, however, does not equate to acceptance. This despite the tenets of political correctness.
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Post by paul on Aug 30, 2011 13:08:16 GMT 9.5
Personally I have found that tolerating another's view, on occasion has saved me from demonstrating my own ignorance.
I first noticed this in studying philosophy. I found famous philosophers often wrote a lot but said nothing.
Much later, on rereading them, I found that the ignorance was mine not theirs.
I am not sure how much I have progressed.
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Post by paul on Aug 30, 2011 13:13:40 GMT 9.5
Still, to return to the thread, I wonder if Stewart, with usual kindly forbearance might tell us if his father found that any of his associates or relatives had similar experiences? Reports indicate that these experiences (real or not) often occur in clusters.
I was camping in the French Alps long ago with a friend. She told me in the morning that there was a bright light that shone through the tent and paralysed her. That of course is a typical entry experience for an abduction. I was next to her and experienced nothing - as far as I recall, but it that a trustworthy recall?
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Post by tamrin on Aug 30, 2011 14:15:31 GMT 9.5
I wonder if Stewart, with usual kindly forbearance might tell us if his father found that any of his associates or relatives had similar experiences? As I recall from recent posts, it was cwhite's father (whose own wife didn't believe him). My dad claims alien abduction....
Its the only abduction in my family that I'm aware of.
However, there is something special about the feminine side of my family, apart from ufos.....
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Post by paul on Aug 30, 2011 14:36:02 GMT 9.5
As I recall from recent posts, it was cwhite's father (whose own wife didn't believe him)... Quite right. I was distracted by later posts
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Post by stewartedwards on Aug 30, 2011 14:52:13 GMT 9.5
Tamrin
I have suggested several placed in this thead and to you previously where you could go to talk directly to those with first hand and credible secondard experience of such things. It really is easy to find them, a few clicks will do it. I believe some of them, you clearly choses not to, so the only recourse if you want to investigate is for you to talk to them directly. As I have suggested before use google to contact some of those who have more than a passing aquaintence with such things, you could even try to arrange to meet some in person the next time they tour down your way. Or given how common such things are try talking to all of your acquaintences with an open mind, you probably know someone personally who has been there.
Funnily enough after I stumbled across this issue,perhaps twenty years ago now I went to the pub with a friend and started chatting to him about ufos. Much to my suprise he began to shake and almost cry as he recounted his own abduction experience to me. As it was reported to the authorities, with other abductees and witnesses, with police and otehr involvement, it will be in our national archives now, must check what that says one day. Anyhow this woke me up to the phenomenon and the more that I looked the more I found that in my town it is not exactly difficult to come across people with similar experiences (perhaps not suprising given the number of cutting edge scientific and governmental establishments around here). Anyhow out of respect for the chap and from wanting to help him, I had time my hands so I investigated and talked to all and sundry globally, both believers and skeptics, medical professionals, policemen, famous authors in the field and so on. I attended conferences, went to ufo meetings etc. It really was quite an eye opener.
Now Paul with regard to my own family. I do not consider myself to be psychic or anything like that, but sometimes I can "feel" things or "know" something is going to happen (timing thereof can be an issue however which negates its usefulness). Best way that I can describe it. There have been lots of little examples in life, my own and in those around me, including in one case suggesting to the UK Human Resource manager of a seemingly profitable and successful global company that he should perhaps worry abouthis own job and look for another. A year later the company went under. Coincidence - quite possibly. But this is not an isolated case, there have been a fair few. One of the things that I have been training myself to do over recent decades is to "trust my gut" and have used this quite successfully in what I have done in the masonic world. Just wish aI was a lot better at it. With some other things my body starts to shake like a nervous twitch (I am told that this is dowsing) for example when I am around certain museum objects (that has also been fun to explore across museums).
Anyhow whether all of this is me being nuts, or a string of coincidences, I mentioned it to a family member when my granny was dying in hospital. Much to my suprise I was told that she had it as well, as did another family member, both females. Perhaps we are all nuts.
Now Tamrin you can use this as evidince of my insanity if you want.
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Post by tamrin on Aug 30, 2011 15:10:22 GMT 9.5
I have suggested several placed in this thead and to you previously where you could go to talk directly to those with first hand and credible secondard experience of such things. Stewart, Please help me out here. The field is wide open for you and I apologise if it means repeating yourself, but please specify your strongest evidence (names, dates, places, etc.). BTW, I am still happy to back off if you wish to leave the issue alone.
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Post by stewartedwards on Aug 30, 2011 15:24:23 GMT 9.5
I have suggested several placed in this thead and to you previously where you could go to talk directly to those with first hand and credible secondard experience of such things. Stewart, Please help me out here. The field is wide open for you and I apologise if it means repeating yourself, but please specify your strongest evidence (names, dates, places, etc.). Tamrin it would be far better for you to pick half a dozen easily contactable abductees/credible experts yourself and go from there. It is a much better way for you to get a truly balanced perspective, I am sure that you are scientific enough to go across the aboard. Have you already done this and concluded that they are all nuts? Somehow, and I apologise now Tamrin if this is unfair, from your postings over the past decade I suspect that you are one of these people who will never "believe" and fair does to you. Just hope that none of your family ever need support on this sort of issue, for like ghostbusters "who are you going to call"? For you I really do think that the best thing you can do is attend the next conference in your area, and walk in the door with as open a mind as you can. Listen, talk, question. At the end of the day there may be a couple who really make you think, and from that you may begin to gain a different perspective. I am just glad that I am not your wife or son who one day had such an experience Tamrin. Stewart now imagines Tamrin shuddering at the thought of me being his son ;D
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Post by tamrin on Aug 30, 2011 16:19:44 GMT 9.5
Tamrin it would be far better for you to pick half a dozen easily contactable abductees/credible experts yourself and go from there. It is a much better way for you to get a truly balanced perspective, I am sure that you are scientific enough to go across the aboard. Have you already done this and concluded that they are all nuts? Over the years I have checked out many reports from this and related mythospheres. None have withstood scrutiny. I work with the bad, the mad and the sad. The few people that have come to me professionally with similar reports to yours I have treated from a firm but sympathetic psychological perspective. With one who claimed to have an alien chip in his skull (and with whom there were recent issues of violent behaviors), I called in a doctor from the local Psych. Crisis Team, had him sectioned and bodily carried off the work site by two police officers. After treatment he thanked me, acknowledged he had been delusional and, until I left that employer, he continued to prefer me to other support workers.
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Post by stewartedwards on Aug 30, 2011 16:47:53 GMT 9.5
Tamrin it would be far better for you to pick half a dozen easily contactable abductees/credible experts yourself and go from there. It is a much better way for you to get a truly balanced perspective, I am sure that you are scientific enough to go across the aboard. Have you already done this and concluded that they are all nuts? Over the years I have checked out many reports from this and related mythospheres. None have withstood scrutiny. I work with the bad, the mad and the sad. The few people that have come to me professionally with similar reports to yours I have treated from a firm but sympathetic psychological perspective. With one who claimed to have an alien chip in his skull (and with whom there were recent issues of violent behaviors), I called in a doctor from the local Psych. Crisis Team, had him sectioned and bodily carried off the work site by two police officers. After treatment he thanked me, acknowledged he had been delusional and, until I left that employer, he continued to prefer me to other support workers. Poor cwhites father then Tamrin, well at least you are sympathetic. Serious question Tamrin, What about the psychiatrist John Mack who pre screened abductees for mental, physchological, physical illness before he saw them, and concluded time and time again (that those he saw after weeding out those who were ill - clearly some people are) were perfectly sane and healthy and that something real had happened to them? In your opinion is this Harvard psychiatrist nuts as well as all of his case studies that he decalared sane? Just curious. I suppose I am asking if you are more highly qualified and experienced than this Harvard psychiatrist?
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Post by paul on Aug 30, 2011 16:59:57 GMT 9.5
While human-controlled implants started in the 1950s with Delgado's stimoceiver en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_implant more recently researchers have removed supposed implants that were more difficult to analyse. Roger Leir is well known for his surgical removal of supposed implants. "Dr. Roger Leir and his surgical team have performed 14 surgeries on alleged alien abductees, resulting in the removal of 15 objects suspected of being alien implants. These objects have been scrutinized by some of the most prestigious laboratories in the world: Los Alamos National Labs, Seal Laboratories, the University of Toronto, and the University of California-San Diego. Their findings have been baffling and some comparisons have been made to meteorite samples. In addition, several tests show metallurgical anomalies such as highly magnetic iron, combinations of crystalline materials with common metals, as well as isotopic ratios not of this world." www.alienscalpel.com/alien-implant/dr-roger-leir-presents-new-startling-findings-alien-implant-researchBy some accounts the anomalous objects sometimes move away from the approaching scalpel.
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Post by Chutzpah on Aug 30, 2011 17:58:23 GMT 9.5
What about the psychiatrist John Mack...? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Edward_Mack"His interest in the spiritual or transformational aspects of people's alien encounters, and his suggestion that the experience of alien contact itself may be more transcendent than physical in nature—yet nonetheless real—set him apart from many of his contemporaries, such as Budd Hopkins, who advocated the physical reality of aliens." So he didn't advocate there was a physical reality to these reported abductions. Instead an externalised, inner mystical experience.
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Post by Chutxpah on Aug 30, 2011 18:03:13 GMT 9.5
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Post by Chutzpah on Aug 30, 2011 18:13:52 GMT 9.5
Tamrin it would be far better for you to pick half a dozen easily contactable abductees/credible experts yourself and go from there. Stewart, the ball is in your court. Whether or not you accept your burden of proof, you at least need to state what is to be considered and not just generally but giving some particular incidents which together would give rise to that general topic. We can cite and debunk cases of our choosing but what would that prove? Only that we hadn't considered the cases you consider to be genuine.
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Post by Chutzpah on Aug 30, 2011 18:16:45 GMT 9.5
UFOs, alien abductions, alien implants, what next? Elvis lives!
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Post by stewartedwards on Aug 30, 2011 23:07:47 GMT 9.5
What about the psychiatrist John Mack...? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Edward_Mack"His interest in the spiritual or transformational aspects of people's alien encounters, and his suggestion that the experience of alien contact itself may be more transcendent than physical in nature—yet nonetheless real—set him apart from many of his contemporaries, such as Budd Hopkins, who advocated the physical reality of aliens." So he didn't advocate there was a physical reality to these reported abductions. Instead an externalised, inner mystical experience. I do like when people use Wiki as as info source I met the man at a conference, talked to him one on one, listened to him explain his views to the packed auditorium. He screened out every single abductee who was ill in some way before they got to him, a world renowned expert in the field, psychiatrist. While he never said yes "that person has been abducted by aliens" which he could not do for he was not there at the time of the abduction, he did say very clearly that something real had happened to them. And that "real" was not illnes of any physical or mental form.
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Post by cwhite on Aug 30, 2011 23:12:31 GMT 9.5
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