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Post by brandt on Mar 23, 2012 11:08:48 GMT 9.5
On an open forum that caters to profanes?
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Post by paul on Mar 23, 2012 11:18:39 GMT 9.5
The ritual enactment of the loss of the genuine secrets may well be a veiling originating about 1725 to cover the then very recent and possibly negligent loss. That would explain why no mainstream Grand Lodges have reported on sending out search parties.
Are those within the temple any better equipped than the profane in dealing with such a situation?
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Post by brandt on Mar 23, 2012 15:04:55 GMT 9.5
Yes, there are prohibitions against those that are merely curious.
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Post by LorrB on Mar 27, 2012 11:11:41 GMT 9.5
How can anyone search for anything if they be not curious in the first place?
Seek and ye shall find.
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Post by LorrB on Mar 27, 2012 11:12:52 GMT 9.5
I can picture the Master, fishing for men, with curiosity as bait.
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Post by paul on Mar 27, 2012 11:31:45 GMT 9.5
Ask, and it shall be given you Seek, and ye shall find Knock, and it shall be opened unto you
This seems to be a 3 stage process. Who is knocking?
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Post by Henka on Mar 27, 2012 13:05:48 GMT 9.5
Ask, and it shall be given you Seek, and ye shall find Knock, and it shall be opened unto you This seems to be a 3 stage process. Who is knocking? You are.
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Post by paul on Sept 21, 2013 11:14:34 GMT 9.5
The earliest Masonic 3rd degree material (FPoF) appears to be recounted at the late dates of 1711 with the Trinity College Dublin Ms and more fully as a raising in 1726 with the Graham MS. (1711 is a late date for the ancient landmark that is the 3rd degree).
Now the Graham MS concerns the raising of Noah. There is no account (as far as I know) of any secrets being lost. Thus the loss is not discovered until the Hiram legend is attached to the 3rd degree.
The Noah connection is however preserved despite the introduction of Hiram: “A Mason Is obliged by his tenure to observe the moral law as a true Noachida.” Anderson 1738
(There are commonalities between the accounts of the death of Hiram and the death of James the Just - brother of Jesus. James the Just was thrown down from the walls of the temple and struck on the head with a fullers' club, whereupon all work on the temple ceased. Is this story concealed in the Masonic account of Hiram? For what purpose?)
The Hiram legend seems to have appeared by 1730. Is that the first public admission of the loss of the genuine secrets?
Blavatsky, writing about 1890 said that no Masonic lodges still had the genuine secrets. By using that phrasing she did not say that no Masons had the genuine secrets.
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Post by stepnwolf on Sept 21, 2013 21:52:26 GMT 9.5
I have heard it said that the genuine secrets can be summed up in the one statement: there are no secrets, genuine or otherwise. It is simply the device hit upon by our ancient brn to encourage the search to discover, learn, enjoy the secrets of creation. Each time a hidden fact of the universe is revealed, another genuine secret is discovered.
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Post by paul on Sept 22, 2013 6:13:27 GMT 9.5
>there are no secrets, genuine or otherwise. To adapt Christine Keeler's famous line: They would say that, wouldn't they! Last night after the installation I was pointing out some things in the temple to a rather keen and young FC and told him that Masonry has lost its secrets. When I said that he reported a sinking feeling in his stomach and asked where he should go to learn the secrets. Albert Mackey: The definition of Freemasonry that it is "a science of morality, veiled in allegory, and illustrated by symbols," has been so often quoted, that, were it not for its beauty, it would become wearisome. But this definition contains the exact principle that has just been enunciated. Freemasonry is a science—a philosophy—a system of doctrines which is taught, in a manner peculiar to itself, by allegories and symbols. www.gutenberg.org/files/11937/11937-h/11937-h.htmNote he speaks of a "science of morality". When the science was lost, this was altered to a "system of morality". This allowed the Grand Lodges to avoid explaining the nature of Masonic Science. Now the word "morality" is a veiling in the sense that it allows the unwary to slide past the meaning. The science of morality not only allows engineering of the energy structures that enable human moral conduct, the principles are applicable to all of Nature. One of the key elements of the science is articulated in this thread: a406.proboards.com/thread/973/21-steps-enlightenment With that map, an appropriate light body and some additional information, it is quite possible to apply a science of morality - complete with "working tools". Of course we apply it to ourselves first. "Physician, heal thyself!" There are reports in the alien literature that indicate that this science is being actively applied to many humans. This is one area where George Orwell's famous slogan Ignorance is Strength is not true. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four
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Post by adrian on Nov 10, 2013 10:21:51 GMT 9.5
Many brethren seem to be playing a blame game, principally blaming our forebears for the loss of the genuine secrets. However, by the time we reach the Royal Arch (and preferably well before that) we should know that the so-called genuine secrets are to be found in the hidden depths of our own being, where they cannot be betrayed because they cannot be put adequately into words. So surely it's reasonable to suppose that the 'loss' of these secrets dates back, not to anyone's murder but to the moment--for each of us when we laid aside the "Robe of Glory' and commenced our journey of incarnations through time. However I assume that the 'secrets' we hear of in Masonry, genuine or otherwise are clues, keys, or pointers, enabling us to work towards discovering the true secrets of life, death, and eternity within ourselves, thus guiding our steps along the path leading back to the Source from which we all came. I always think of the Hermit card in the Tarot at this point, of the lamp shining a way to illuminate our way back towards that starting point (or, if one prefers onto the Centre)
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Post by paul on Nov 10, 2013 11:31:33 GMT 9.5
Since a science can be taught, and the genuine secrets cannot be put into words, may I deduce that the genuine secrets do not concern Masonic Science?
As many before me have noted, the 18th degree is full of alchemy, and one of the benefits of alchemy was/is immortality. Alchemy looks like science and gave birth to chemistry, so is alchemy part of Masonic Science?
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Post by adrian on Nov 10, 2013 12:17:21 GMT 9.5
Is Alchemy part of Masonic Science? I think yes, see Laurence Gardner's books The Shadow of Solomon, and Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark.
As for the 'genuine secrets' not being part of Masonic Science, I disagree, since science is not just about passing on information, but teaching us how to make discoveries, the ability to do which depends, as Einstein said as much upon intuition as upon things taught. Perhaps what Masonic Science is teaching us is a method, or a series of methods by which we can arrive at an inner understanding of the 'genuine secrets.'
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Post by paul on Nov 12, 2013 7:21:04 GMT 9.5
As I may have mentioned elsewhere, the Rose of Sharon enters the Old Testament for the first time with the King James translation (and with the announcement of the existence of the Rosicrucians). (The root of the word in the original text indicates a poisonous bulb flower - such as a lily.)
In the 18th degree we are told that:
- the rose is a symbol of secrecy - the symbolism of the 18th degree refers to truths known only the perfect Mason.
Does this mean that the genuine secrets were still known to the instigators of the 18th degree?
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Post by LorrB on Nov 12, 2013 7:52:55 GMT 9.5
Rose Croix Rosi-crucian
I would suppose so It might prove interesting to compare the imagery/symbolism of both degrees.
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Post by adrian on Nov 13, 2013 11:05:21 GMT 9.5
Yes, I should imagine that the instigators of the 18th degree did know the genuine secrets. How else can one explain this beautiful degree's significance? Leadbeater also says--by way of interest in his book Glimpses of Masonic History that the Christian Rosenkreutz workings of the 18th degree were introduced into Co-Masonry on direct instructions from the Masters, one of whom uses it in his Lodge on the Inner Planes. Apparently the original is in Latin. This statement is made quite unequivocally in the book and Leadbeater was not, I imagine the type to be easily deluded, so make of it what you will.
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Post by paul on Nov 13, 2013 11:19:56 GMT 9.5
>the instigators of the 18th degree did know the genuine secrets
There is much of interest in the 18th including:
- extensive alchemical symbolism - symbolic use of the Water of Life and the Bread of Life - reference to the military nature of the heavenly sovereign and his prince-generals - the role of a rose in the ancient mysteries.
There is a strong connection with HRA as in the Mysteries the triple grip is practiced by the above sovereign and his two prince-generals (prince of peace and prince of darkness?) - but for which purposes?
>the Christian Rosenkreutz workings of the 18th degree were introduced into Co-Masonry on direct instructions from the Masters
I think that is so, but Leadbeater's situation was more complex than commonly portrayed in the TS.
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Post by stewartedwards on Nov 18, 2013 13:17:43 GMT 9.5
the triple grip is practiced by the above sovereign and his two prince-generals (prince of peace and prince of darkness?) - but for which purposes? It is an essential element of balance Paul. The way that I think about this is reflected in the Ea/Enkil/Enlil legend. Its about maintaining the balance of darkness and light.
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Post by paul on Nov 18, 2013 13:35:46 GMT 9.5
... this is reflected in the Ea/Enkil/Enlil legend. Its about maintaining the balance of darkness and light. When you add in the god Anu who repeatedly descended to Earth and ascended to Heaven to sort out his warring offspring, you have an authentic version of the triple grip: Ea, Baal and Anu.
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Post by stewartedwards on Nov 18, 2013 13:46:31 GMT 9.5
Yes you are right Paul, it is 4 in the morning over here hence my dizziness, but that is the key. It is fascinating watch it play out in our world today.
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