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Post by paul on Jul 29, 2011 8:36:24 GMT 9.5
By some accounts Masonry started in 1717 or perhaps in the imputed stone masons guilds of the Middle Ages.
If so, when were the genuine secrets lost? How?
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Post by LorrB on Jul 29, 2011 9:42:43 GMT 9.5
My guess would be at the time of The Deluge.
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Post by paul on Jul 29, 2011 10:58:47 GMT 9.5
A good answer - but that would suggest that either:
- the holders of the genuine secrets were not smart/prescient enough to escape the flood (what value the secrets?), or
- the holders of secrets deliberately refrained from passing them on (what hope then for recovery?).
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Post by LorrB on Jul 29, 2011 11:10:13 GMT 9.5
If they knew an asteroid hit or some other cataclysmic event was inevitable and inescapable then surely they would try to save that which they considered was most valuable ... ie knowledge.
That so few survived and they not capable of finding or deciphering that which was secured safely was another matter.
If I survived an event like that and discovered the records of our current scientific knowledge, what good would it be? I could only hand it down the line till someone knew what to do with it.
(Which brings to mind the vast underground city they are building 25 miles out of Denver Colorado ... under the airport. Check out the artwork in the airport complex, complete with gargoyles... very odd to say the least. No doubt, preparing in advance for future cataclysms)
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Post by paul on Jul 29, 2011 11:27:25 GMT 9.5
Still there is the legend (legenda = the things that ought to be read) of pillars to preserve knowledge.
wherefor they wrote these Sciences which they had found in Two Pillars of stone, thatt they might be found after the Flood. The one stone was called Marbell--cannott burn with Fire, and the other was called Laturus, thatt cannott drown in the Water."
This suggests that there were efforts to preserve some secrets - although which secrets is not too clear.
I recall that limestone (with which the Great Pyramid was covered) when put through fire (volcano) turns to marble. Could the Great Pyramid be a pillar containing knowledge?
I have read that Moses retrieved significant technological devices from the Great Pyramid including his rod - and that the Nazis were hopeful that some of that technology might still be found amongst the Jews.
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Post by Tamrin on Jul 29, 2011 14:30:08 GMT 9.5
By some accounts Masonry started in 1717 or perhaps in the imputed stone masons guilds of the Middle Ages.
If so, when were the genuine secrets lost? How? In The Muses Threnodie, Edinburgh, 1638, by Henry Adamson, we read: "For we be brethren of the Rosie Crosse; We have the Mason word, and second sight, Things for to come we can foretell aright." There is no prevarication, they HAD the Mason word, not some substituted word (apparently the second of those now communicated as substitutes and formerly associated with the Antients). The notion of the lost secrets, while found elsewhere, does not appear to have been part of masonic lore before the rearrangement of the earlier two degree, the creation of the Third Degree and its Hiramic Legend in the 1720's |
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Post by LorrB on Aug 1, 2011 13:39:05 GMT 9.5
By some accounts Masonry started in 1717 or perhaps in the imputed stone masons guilds of the Middle Ages. If so, when were the genuine secrets lost? How? I am a great fan of Alvin Boyd Kuhn.. maybe his point of view might indicate how the genuine secrets were lost. The central thesis of Dr. Kuhn's work hypothesizes that the sages of ancient mythologies did not intend for biblical writings to be read in a literal manner, but that it was their plan to transmit veiled truths via parable and allegory. Holy writ, asserts Professor Kuhn, has no basis for interpretation along historical lines. Orthodoxy's interpretation of the Bible has resulted, in Dr. Kuhn's words, in the "unconscionable stultification" of man's ability to perceive and utilize divine truths. Moreover, Kuhn advises us that true Christianity was proscribed in the third century and replaced with "Christianism." In his brilliant and illuminating The Shadow of the Third Century, Kuhn quotes St. Augustine to assert that Christianity existed in different forms and under different names in times preceding the Galilean:
That which is known as the Christian religion existed among the ancients, and never did not exist; from the very beginning of the human race [perhaps this explains the equal-arm crucifix intaglios of Neolithic times] until the time when Christ came in the flesh, at which time the true religion which already existed, began to be called Christianity. - Retractt. I, xiii. bio-plasmics.org/alvin_boyd_kuhn.htm |
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Post by paul on Aug 1, 2011 13:54:39 GMT 9.5
It is possible that some genuine secrets were lost when the brethren in the Royal Society lost their influence in Masonry.
There may also have been progressive loss of the secrets of the Mysteries over the preceding millennia - perhaps under the patronage of orthodox religion
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Post by tamrin on Aug 1, 2011 14:09:33 GMT 9.5
The high point of the Royal Society's masonic influence, under Desaguliers' in the 1720s, was precisely when the allegory of lost secrets was introduced.
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Post by paul on Aug 2, 2011 9:17:41 GMT 9.5
That does suggest that the Royal Society brethren had access to a deeper esoteric knowledge than was available in mainstream Masonic lodges
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Post by tamrin on Aug 2, 2011 13:19:24 GMT 9.5
That does suggest that the Royal Society brethren had access to a deeper esoteric knowledge than was available in mainstream Masonic lodges How so? And bear-in-mind their motto, Nullius in verba (Take nobody's word for it). |
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Post by paul on Aug 2, 2011 13:34:42 GMT 9.5
Nullius in verba
I would have translated that as "of none in words"
That is perhaps open to multiple interpretations particularly for Masons.
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Post by tamrin on Aug 2, 2011 16:28:56 GMT 9.5
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Post by paul on Aug 2, 2011 18:57:35 GMT 9.5
Apparently even the Masons in the Royal Society did not veil their words
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Post by tamrin on Aug 2, 2011 19:05:13 GMT 9.5
They sought verifiable facts and shunned unsupported assertions.
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Post by stewartedwards on Aug 3, 2011 6:50:13 GMT 9.5
I recall that limestone (with which the Great Pyramid was covered) when put through fire (volcano) turns to marble. Could the Great Pyramid be a pillar containing knowledge? Well it certainly still functions perfectly well as an initiation chamber. It also still functions admirably as a beacon of illumination in our world, drawing people far and wide. People look for knowledge in the pyramid by taking measurements and by looking for hidden chambers. While this is not in itself unimportant, the real knowledge is contained in the residual energy contained within the crystals. I know that the Egyptian government shied away at the millennium from the planned recapping ceremony, but if it chose to capitalize on this aspect of the pyramid it could bring in mega bucks for the country from new age tourism, while illuminating our world a little more. Bung (technically and scientifically speaking) the right crystal (the one that the conspiracy theorists say may be in a downed helicopter just before the recapping ceremony was canceled possibly??) in the capstone, and bobs your uncle. No need to worry about the other crystals et all for these purposes. Though replacing all of those lost and destroyed crystals could help reduce the impact of a future catastrophe. If you believe such things it could be a darn sight more effective than any number of Denver underground bases. But it would I guess mean that Egypt would retake its place and become much more influential and wealthy in our modern world. But you then have the issue of religion to consider as well as how other power groups would react to loosing relative power. But then again less power is better than virtually no power after a catastrophe requiring millenia and possibly new life forms (dinosaurs, humans, .........) to rebuild. As an aside I read a book recently, cant remember which, but it was a respected book about such things not an alternative one, and it gave the accounts of some senior British officers, civil servants etc who were on the "go to the bunker immediately list" before they retired. (Bit tired just now so my memory may be tiring a little). Anyhow some did say that they did not know if they would have obeyed that order, and some did say that they would specifically ask if it was a request or an order before deciding whether to go home or there. Now assuming that this is reflected globally, quite frankly you can build as many bunker's as you want but if people arent going to be there, you could find that you experience a long slow lonely death as opposed to a quick one, not that there is anything wrong per see in that, but the optimal strategy should be to rebalance this planet. It may not prevent natural catastrophe but it could lessen its impact in all sorts of down to earth ways. |
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Post by LorrB on Aug 3, 2011 9:36:22 GMT 9.5
Stewart, you might enjoy reading some of Freddy Silva's books. His book Common Wealth was very enjoyable, and all about temples and mounds etc being part of balancing Earth energies. And I loved his book Secrets of the Fields (crop circles). invisibletemple.com/common_wealth.html |
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Post by LorrB on Aug 3, 2011 10:25:02 GMT 9.5
I have a nagging suspicion that the innermost genuine secrets were lost when our soul incarnated into a physical body.
The Two Pillars at the porch or entrance.... the two legs.
The Flood or Deluge.... our body is mostly composed of salt water.
The Fire is Soul/Spirit.
The Serpent which 'tempted Eve with Knowledge and/of Life Everlasting' is the Kundalini (Fire) energy which lies coiled at the base on the spine (in a triangular shape area referred to as the sacrum)
The Middle Chamber - the heart.
The Chair of King Solomon - the crown of the head.
We lost the secrets when we incarnated, we discover part of them again when we raise ourselves up by the right thinking, feeling and doing.
Mythology tells us that before we incarnate we pass through the 'river' Lethe one of the 'five rivers' in Hades.
Hades = Shade ? Five rivers - five senses ?
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Post by paul on Aug 3, 2011 11:51:43 GMT 9.5
For those on Earth, understanding the human structure and nature is the entrance to the Mysteries.
Following stages include the systemic function of the human kingdom and the nature of relationships with other kingdoms.
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Post by tamrin on Aug 3, 2011 13:12:31 GMT 9.5
The "secrets" of the first two degrees and the "substituted secrets" of the third degree each consist of a sign, token and word. The second word communicated in the third degree was formerly the "Mason Word," earlier communicated as a genuine "secret" in the second degree before it and the first were reorganized and the third created (together with the notion of lost secrets) in the 1720's and shortly before the relatively newly introduced words of the first two degrees were transposed. I'm not sure if all this leaves much room for the more fanciful secrets to which you appear to allude.
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