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Post by jackjack on Jul 26, 2012 22:31:29 GMT 9.5
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Post by stewartedwards on Jul 26, 2012 23:59:15 GMT 9.5
I'm telling you what the Bible says, Stewart; assuming that you're upset over me calling you a liar over the fact of the teaching of Christ's pre-existence before the world, JackJack you appear to be muddling what you called me a liar over - it was my experience with God. You did not believe this when you asked if God had given me a mission. Remember you said that I was making it up. So while on the one hand you say that God can come to people in all sorts of ways - apparently I am to be excluded. First the masons reject me, allegedly primarily because of my choice of religious books, now you reject that God could ask me to return here. Dear or dear what is a simple man to do. Take a philosophical moment JackJack and ask yourself what if I were telling the truth, which I am. Would it really shake your beliefs so much to find that God chose to ask a mere mortal human like me to return to this planet? It was a night that I will never forget, nor my hospital consultant, it frightened the life out of him when he saw me bouncing around the following day, after such a fever spike. I was immediately transferred to another hospital and given even more antibiotics in case the fever spikes worsened. I really would recommend you read my book "10 days in hospital" it explains it. Costs 99c, 77p or similar in euros from Amazon, ibookstore, Nook (I think) etc. Once you have read it if you still want to call me a liar then that is your choice. But at least you will have full facts of the surrounding circumstances, and you can put it down to hallucinations in a fever spike fulled by hospital antibiotics (I had a cut in my ear that got infected). And that is the most rational explanation. Out of sheer nosiness why do not believe that God who by your own words can come in visions, dream, people etc, could have chosen me? [not saying he has just philosophising - all he did was pass on the message that he would like me to consider returning - but it was a completely free choice on my part - and one which took huge pains away from my body instantly - or a couple of hours sleep for the scientists].
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Post by paul on Jul 27, 2012 8:06:25 GMT 9.5
... So the Grand Lodge convened; all the lodge masons met in England inside of a big cathedral or ball room (because at the time, there weren't that many lodges) and decided on the rules that were needed in order for the "essential nature" of Freemasonry to be preserved. ..... It is more correct to say that 4 London lodges met in a tavern and broke away from the York Grand Lodge. And the landmarks vary greatly between the Grand Lodges.
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Post by paul on Jul 27, 2012 8:09:25 GMT 9.5
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Post by paul on Jul 27, 2012 8:17:51 GMT 9.5
....it is the habit of these higher ranking spirits to deceive humans; and they love it when people think that they're God. ...... By the grace of God, I happened to be hidden from their view once and saw a portion of their meeting. ..... A profound experience indeed. So how did you know that it was by the grace of God rather that by the power of a still higher ranking entity that wanted you to think that it was God? Jackjack, I think you might have missed my question here. Now obviously you are not just taking the view: My vision is better than your vision, so you must have some reasons for your view that God showed what you saw. As a meta-physicist I take a close interest in people's experiences, so I wonder if you can say how you would be able to tell which of the following possibilities actually occurred: - God showed you and you saw it correctly - a god or other lesser being showed you and you saw it correctly - the scene you saw contained real beings but they were actors - the scene was artificial as in computer generated imagery - the scene was real but your spiritual sight and beliefs filtered what you saw so that you did not see accurately So how would you know which of those (or other possibilities) was actually occurring?
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Post by Henka on Jul 27, 2012 12:45:33 GMT 9.5
One day, Lord Krishna was suffering from a most terrible headache! All of his ministers, devotees and servants couldn't figure out how God could suffer from a human condition. Moreover, they couldn't figure out WHAT would relieve him of such a malice. When sought for a cure, most thought they were too low, unworthy to serve their Lord. After all, He was God in the flesh. Anything human must be beneath Him! After hearing excuse after excuse, He sent his devotees to find some gopis (milk maids, shepherdesses) and fetch the dust from their feet to serve as a cure towards the awful headache. Confused of the request, they sought some down and made the request. Without thinking twice, each gopi shed dust from their feet and sent it back with the men to give to their Lord. Before they returned, He sat there, smiling, already cured of His headache, which we believed was an act to teach a lesson: No matter how lowly you may be or feel, no one is "too soiled", as the Bible would teach, or unworthy to stand before and humbly be not only a servant, but a friend to God. None of us are born to serve on our knees or too "unclean" to be worthy of companionship of the Divine, no matter by what Name you call God.
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Post by LorrB on Jul 27, 2012 14:37:35 GMT 9.5
Beautiful story Henka! Friend of God, those words really open the heart up. (I never could understand the 'Fear the Lord' bits in the bible - Karma is another thing )
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Post by jackjack on Jul 27, 2012 17:37:04 GMT 9.5
JackJack you appear to be muddling what you called me a liar over - it was my experience with God. You did not believe this when you asked if God had given me a mission. Remember you said that I was making it up. I wasn't asking you a rhetorical question; I figured that if you hadn't given me the full scoop on your experience the first time (ie the whole "I was testing you" thing), then maybe you were doing the same thing again. I have read several books that the fathers of Masonry released and at times, they will do the same thing; they will either not tell you the full story or will lie outright in order to conceal mystery. I didn't know if you were doing the same so I decided to ask you outright if you were. Now, based off of what you told me, here is what I understand; I understand that you had a supernatural encounter with a higher ranking spirit and he claimed to be relaying a message from God which was you had a choice of whether or not to come back to earth--no pressure. You said that you would and he was like "ok" and the next thing you know you're back in your hospital bed. The only thing out of your whole story that I am not sure of believing is whether that higher being served God or not; many OOBE encounters have stated that they were sent back, given reasons why they should return back to earth, provided the option of staying in heaven or going back to earth (and reasons are given why they should go back to earth), or the encounter entailed someone going through outer space, the tunnel of light, heaven, and then "pow", the person is back in their room. In many of these instances, there were reasons why people came back; in your case, you weren't really given any reasons to come back and the whole fact of you even coming back to earth was treated as something frivolous and trifling. Do you understand my perspective? If God is supposed to be a loving God, then why would He not only NOT tell you why you should go back but also treat your going back as something trivial? God loves His creation and He desires to give direction in peoples' lives so that they will not stumble. This is why I have my doubts in regards to whether or not the being actually was a messenger from the Lord. And another thing... All mystical experiences MUST be tested; they can be very vivid and colorful at times and it is quite easy for us to be so overwhelmed by them, that we automatically think "That's GOT to be God!" In testing my own dreams and visions, I would say that there are times when valuable instructions portray themselves in my mind's eye when I sleep. When I awake, at first I think it's instruction from the Lord; upon further investigation however, sometimes I find that I meditated very much on something in my heart and as a result, it has a panoramic movie effect when the ideas portray themselves on the screen of my mind's eye--everything is living and in color. Of course, then there are other times when the dream or vision comes from the devil or someplace else; I have to be very careful with those. For first of all, the devil is a liar and an angel of light and many times, he likes to give you ideas and instruction that merely look and feel good but aren't the truth. And I might add, ideas that come from someplace else can be dangerous too; because there are people who are skilled at influencing other people's minds while they sleep and if you believe what they show you, then that idea of theirs becomes a trap for you so that your path in life becomes more difficult to travel. It's a crazy world we live in. Moving on... I believe the answer to your question hinges on one word--discernment. How can one discern the difference between illusion and reality? Well...you just...do. There is an inner knowing; comparable to when you feel love, hate, joy energy and in real life, you get better and better at distinguishing between love, hate, joy, and other energies by experience. Of course, the better question is how do you develop discernment? Well, how do flowers grow? They grow in proportion to the length of time they stay exposed to the sun--and even after they are fully mature, they still sustain the sun's energy for life. So; putting these two things together, we gather the following; for the Christian, it is vital to grow in the supernatural power {gr. dunamis} and knowledge of Jesus Christ. Why? Well, because He's the Logos--begotten not created, true God of true God... ...Light of Light
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Post by jackjack on Jul 27, 2012 17:41:57 GMT 9.5
Did the Masonic Council randomly make up the landmarks for the masonic lodges to follow? And what about the masonic ritual? Is the masonic ritual based off of the council's opinion or does it have a basis in the ancient and primitive rites of the adepts from long ago?
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Post by paul on Jul 27, 2012 17:52:33 GMT 9.5
I think you are not well informed about the common beliefs of English-speaking Freemasons. Most brethren think that they are the result of stone masons who for some reason had rituals.
Continental Masons tend to have views closer to your own.
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Post by stewartedwards on Jul 27, 2012 21:45:59 GMT 9.5
First of all apologize for the spelling but I don't have time to correct it just now. I have read several books that the fathers of Masonry released and at times, they will do the same thing; they will either not tell you the full story or will lie outright in order to conceal mystery. I didn't know if you were doing the same so I decided to ask you outright if you were. As a rule I do my best not to lie JackJack. However as any policeman will tell you everyone lies to some degree. Funny enough I wrote a chapter on this in one of my books when I talked about the darker side of human nature. Basicly correct. Though bear in mind that i was on a cocktail of hospital antibiotics in a fever spike, with my body closing down on me. So a more rational explanation could be hallucination. That said to clarify, there was me at the gates of heaven, being allowed to pass through, and I was ready to walk through, when I was asked if I would consider returning. I don't think that it was in any way a frivolous request, I do think that God wanted me to return, but as he had confirmed that I had "done enough" it was completely my choice. He would like me to, but understood if I chose not to. You will appreciate JackJack that doing Gods work is not an easy task on Earth. Especially in a world where people generally ridicule you for being close to God. To put this into perspective JackJack, I read somewhere a while back that some Cardinal or another in the roman Catholic church allegedly said that they keep waiting for some nudge from God, but it never happens. Well I have had one, so it does happen, but do you really think that if I were to visit the Vatican and say "Hi God asked me to pop in any hello" that they would take kindly to it. I suspect that the old boys would probably have me ridiculed out of town, and bearing in mind that I consider myself to be a Gnostic Christian if they could they would probably have me tortured if they could get away with it for Heresy. I take the view that God knows what he is doing and if he things that it is beneficial to have me wander this Earth, then who am I to question his will? Maybe he just respects what I have achieved over the past decade and can see the benefit of more humans finding their way. OR perhaps I was simply hallucinating. Some religious people take one view, some scientist take the other. For me, I just plod on. Now if you just accept for a moment that I may now be here with Gods blessing, doing his work, consider how many religions would have trouble with that. Evangelical Christians could easily have a problem as I value all religions, and recognize that the Bible is a post Jesus invention. The Roman Catholic Church as I explained above could easily have a problem, even though I wish them well (as long as they don't rape pubescent children or have people tortured/murdered). The Jewish faith could easily have issues given that they still don't recognize Jesus as being the Messiah, so what hope could I have! As was said on the Da Vinci code, would said person (Audrey Tatau) confirm faith or destroy it. I would confirm it, but the churches would not find me an easy person to deal with as I value all religions. Fortunately I have no intentions of stirring things up, for I am much more concerned about getting the political world to act more ethically and lead this world better. Well it matters not to me either way if you believe what I say or not JackJack as I am not trying to get you to worship me. I simply state what happened and trust that God works in mysterious ways and I am happy to trust his judgment. Mind you I can feel the trinity in ways most cant - out there, in here and up there. Well I wasn't given any reasons JackJack. I was simply asked like a father asking his son if he wouldn't mind. Before hand I was buckled over in pin and I was feeling my life drain out of me, a couple of hours later, as soon as I made the decision (and I nearly chose to cross over - in fact the thought of being a step away from back home was very powerful), i was woken by the nurse, my fever gone and I was as fresh as a daisy. Oh the benefits of 2 hours sleep. Hardly as explained above JackJack, but I guess you would have to have been there. Perhaps I am closer to God than you, and many others, realize? (which is why it tickles me when masons lecture me on God). Why should he tell me? I did what my father in heaven asked of me? why should I have demanded an explanation? It was tough enough for me not to cross through the gates, to turn back was a huge decision for me. But I put my trust in him, and decided that my own personal comfort of going home could wait a little longer. Why should God explain himself to me? I don't expect that. He asked, I did. I have no doubts, but then again I was there. indeed. However I was at deaths door, a rather different place from a mere nighttime dream.
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Post by cwhite on Jul 27, 2012 22:53:39 GMT 9.5
One day, Lord Krishna was suffering from a most terrible headache! All of his ministers, devotees and servants couldn't figure out how God could suffer from a human condition. Moreover, they couldn't figure out WHAT would relieve him of such a malice. When sought for a cure, most thought they were too low, unworthy to serve their Lord. After all, He was God in the flesh. Anything human must be beneath Him! After hearing excuse after excuse, He sent his devotees to find some gopis (milk maids, shepherdesses) and fetch the dust from their feet to serve as a cure towards the awful headache. Confused of the request, they sought some down and made the request. Without thinking twice, each gopi shed dust from their feet and sent it back with the men to give to their Lord. Before they returned, He sat there, smiling, already cured of His headache, which we believed was an act to teach a lesson: No matter how lowly you may be or feel, no one is "too soiled", as the Bible would teach, or unworthy to stand before and humbly be not only a servant, but a friend to God. None of us are born to serve on our knees or too "unclean" to be worthy of companionship of the Divine, no matter by what Name you call God. Jesus was known for washing his servants feet too. Perhaps he got a headache from thinking of how hundreds of millions of people would follow "Paulianity" in his name.
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Post by Henka on Jul 28, 2012 8:50:55 GMT 9.5
One day, Lord Krishna was suffering from a most terrible headache! All of his ministers, devotees and servants couldn't figure out how God could suffer from a human condition. Moreover, they couldn't figure out WHAT would relieve him of such a malice. When sought for a cure, most thought they were too low, unworthy to serve their Lord. After all, He was God in the flesh. Anything human must be beneath Him! After hearing excuse after excuse, He sent his devotees to find some gopis (milk maids, shepherdesses) and fetch the dust from their feet to serve as a cure towards the awful headache. Confused of the request, they sought some down and made the request. Without thinking twice, each gopi shed dust from their feet and sent it back with the men to give to their Lord. Before they returned, He sat there, smiling, already cured of His headache, which we believed was an act to teach a lesson: No matter how lowly you may be or feel, no one is "too soiled", as the Bible would teach, or unworthy to stand before and humbly be not only a servant, but a friend to God. None of us are born to serve on our knees or too "unclean" to be worthy of companionship of the Divine, no matter by what Name you call God. Jesus was known for washing his servants feet too. Perhaps he got a headache from thinking of how hundreds of millions of people would follow "Paulianity" in his name. ;D
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Post by paul on Aug 5, 2012 6:56:53 GMT 9.5
>I do wonder how much of this is duality in meaning.
There is a long tradition of concealing additional meanings in text, for example the early books of the Old Testament have meanings concealed by Temurah (interchange of letters), Notarikon (condensing and expanding acronyms), and Gematria (interchange of words/phrases of equal numeric value).
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Post by LorrB on Aug 10, 2012 8:35:19 GMT 9.5
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Post by paul on Aug 10, 2012 9:18:37 GMT 9.5
It is certainly useful to make tabulations but sometimes a Liverpool screwdriver is used.
For example, can the RWM represent Will while the WSW represents Strength in the Lodge while the JD corresponds to Strength in the table?
And where does the GAOTU fit in the table?
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Post by LorrB on Aug 10, 2012 10:52:48 GMT 9.5
It is certainly useful to make tabulations but sometimes a Liverpool screwdriver is used. For example, can the RWM represent Will while the WSW represents Strength in the Lodge while the JD corresponds to Strength in the table? And where does the GAOTU fit in the table? I take it you do not share Leadbeater's thoughts on the subject. The GAOTU does not figure here, this is the personal lodge, the micro-lodge. TGAOTU is off the chart The way I read the chart from a personal point of view it as follows: Spiritual Will results in Natural Law which can be discerned by our mind. Intuitional Love is the Natural Energy (Life) which from our limited sphere is usually discerned through our personal desires or emotions. Active Intelligence is employed to operate our physical vehicles which will in time produce works of great beauty. Remember the reflection rule ... if you fold the chart diagonally it will reveal that Beauty here (in us) is the Blazing Star of God the Father. His light shines ever in our darkness. Man is a god in the making, and as in the mystic myths of Egypt, on the potter's wheel he is being molded. When his light shines out to lift and preserve all things, he receives the triple crown of godhood, and joins that throng of Master Masons who, in their robes of Blue and Gold, are seeking to dispel the darknes s of night with the triple light of the Masonic Lodge. Ceaselessly the Norns spin the thread of human fate. Age in and age out, upon the looms of destiny are woven the living garments of God. Some are rich in glorious colors and wondrous fabrics, while others are broken and frayed before they leave the loom. All, however, are woven by these three Sisters - thought, action, and desire - with which the ignorant build walls of mud and bricks of slime between themselves and truth; while the pure of heart weave from these radiant threads garments of celestial bea uty. Do what we will, we cannot stop those nimble fingers which twist the threads, but we may change the quality of the thread they use. www.phoenixmasonry.org/the_lost_key_of_freemasonry.htm
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Post by paul on Aug 10, 2012 11:41:23 GMT 9.5
.. The GAOTU does not figure here, this is the personal lodge, the micro-lodge. TGAOTU is off the chart ... Is there no interface between a human and the GAOTU? I suppose you could argue that the GAOTU designed the universe and then went home, but that takes the architect allegory rather too literally. Sometimes with the crossing of the wands at the Obligation a stream of energy from the GAOTU may appear and flow into the candidate. I watched such an event a few months back and the candidate was pouring sweat while those around were quite cool.
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Post by LorrB on Aug 10, 2012 13:32:04 GMT 9.5
.. The GAOTU does not figure here, this is the personal lodge, the micro-lodge. TGAOTU is off the chart ... Is there no interface between a human and the GAOTU? I suppose you could argue that the GAOTU designed the universe and then went home, but that takes the architect allegory rather too literally. Sometimes with the crossing of the wands at the Obligation a stream of energy from the GAOTU may appear and flow into the candidate. I watched such an event a few months back and the candidate was pouring sweat while those around were quite cool. Of course the candidate is getting hot... their lower mind and desires and emotions are being bombarded by The Sacred Fire of the Father. Interface? Even scientists are now working on Quantum entanglement (which) allows qubits that are separated by incredible distances to interact with each other immediately, in a communication that is not limited to the speed of light. No matter how great the distance between the correlated particles, they will remain entangled as long as they are isolated. searchcio-midmarket.techtarget.com/definition/entanglementFor my mind that more or less explains anything above (or below) me on the creation chart.
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Post by jackjack on Aug 14, 2012 12:27:52 GMT 9.5
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