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Post by Henka on Jul 24, 2012 21:17:13 GMT 9.5
LOL! His fundamentalism comes out! ;D Gotta love a good bible thumper.
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Post by Henka on Jul 25, 2012 1:22:58 GMT 9.5
This is why I'm pretty sure that there is no way that the deity who inspired all of the ancient mysteries also inspired the writers of the scriptures. No way at all. It violates God's Name when you say stuff like that. And what, exactly, is God's name? It is certainly not God. And don't say Jesus.
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Post by jackjack on Jul 25, 2012 1:36:02 GMT 9.5
> there is another God who is more powerful then the deities that you worship for strength, power, and advice. His ways are higher then theirs and He has conquered them ALL through the cross and the resurrection of His Son! This theology is quite new to me. If I understand your proposition: Jehovah conquered other gods through having a son and having that son killed by humans and then raised up. Are you able to say how having a son that was killed by humans and then raised, caused Jehovah to conquer the other gods? Yes; see, God loved the world so much He gave His Son so anyone who'd believe on Him would be saved. One of the most ancient Biblical symbols for this is the serpent on the pole; if you recall, fiery serpents were unleashed upon the people because due to the justice of God, they had grumbled and complained against Him despite all the many times He had delivered them. When the fiery snakes bit the people, they became deathly ill. Moses, upon inquiring of the Lord, was told that there was only one remedy for this disease; and that was this--that after making a serpent on a pole, it should then be placed on a high place for all to behold. Whoever looked at it, would be healed of the illness brought on by the poison of the snakes. In the same way, Christ was lifted up, in His own words, "just as the serpent was lifted up in the wilderness"--and why? Why did we need to be made right with God? Because we all are born in the condition of sin and need to be delivered from it. The wisdom from the world and the spirit of the dragon teaches people that they are ultimately good and that they have no need to be rescued from sin and that the greatest sin is merely ignorance and that the only people worth saving are people who are already good or enlightened. In the words of Thomas, the "good" shepherd: This is totally opposite to what the Holy Spirit teaches: And when you boil it all down... For more info, see the links below: christianity.about.com/od/faqhelpdesk/a/whyjesushad2die.htmbible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=124
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Post by cwhite on Jul 25, 2012 2:03:20 GMT 9.5
I got a verse for you Jack..
Hebrews 5:13-14; For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
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Post by jackjack on Jul 25, 2012 2:07:29 GMT 9.5
This is why I'm pretty sure that there is no way that the deity who inspired all of the ancient mysteries also inspired the writers of the scriptures. No way at all. It violates God's Name when you say stuff like that. And what, exactly, is God's name? It is certainly not God. And don't say Jesus. While they are all divine and of the same essence, they are distinct in person; when I refer to the Father of Lights (aka God the Father), I call Him Jehovah which quite simply means "the self-existent one". He's not just any ol' god floating around out there though; He's the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. When I refer to the Son, I call Him Christ or Jesus. When I refer to God's Spirit, I call Him the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit. God's character is quite plainly revealed in the scriptures; to violate His Name means to violate His character and reputation. Of course, there are other names that He goes by too.. Here's one of them: www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d/El/el.html
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Post by cwhite on Jul 25, 2012 2:14:45 GMT 9.5
I call Him the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit. This is actually a Her, the proper name is Shekinah.
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Post by jackjack on Jul 25, 2012 2:22:15 GMT 9.5
Another big problem is that a lot of the original Christian symbols have been reinterpreted to mean something else; here's an example... This originally meant the Holy Ghost bringing enlightenment to the mind; nowadays, it has been interpreted as the freedom of the higher self.
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Post by jackjack on Jul 25, 2012 2:23:59 GMT 9.5
I call Him the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit. This is actually a Her, the proper name is Shekinah. Care to share your personal experience?
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Post by stewartedwards on Jul 25, 2012 2:45:32 GMT 9.5
JackJack
Like you I have spent many years finding my way. You found your comfort in the Bible, and I assume a relationship with God. I also have a personal relationship with God that I stumbled upon, and when I was down that old tunnel of light, it was confirmed to me that I was doing ok, more than ok actually I had done enough, but he asked me to come back here, so I did, and hey presto I have a miraculous recovery on a cocktail of hospital drugs.
Now you could say that I was hallucinating during a fever spike on a cocktail of antibiotics, and that may be true. I mean it is the most rational explanation. But equally if you take the religious view, you could say, as some have said about me (long before my death experience btw) that I am on a mission from God. For me I dont mind either way, what happened happened, and I am just steering my way through life.
Anyhow, you can believe this or disbelieve it as you please, but I have come as close as any mortal man can to God.
Now, with regard to the ancient mysteries and the Bible. You may want to do some research, it is easy for there are books and websites on it, but you will find a number of pretty much word accurate and near word accurate passages in the Bible which were to be found in the mystery religions of ancient Egypt for example. It would be better to check it out for yourself.
Also consider that Christianity claims 1bn followers, that is actually a minority of humans, over 6bn are not Christians, and some follow religions that had survived 2000 years before Christianity arose and are still widely practices in our world today. Sort of makes Christianity the young kid on the block.
Now I realize that this may upset you, which is not my intention, but if you feel able it may be of use for you to study some of the other major religions on this planet and ask yourself can all those 6bn plus people be wrong, and the 1bn Christians be right?
To me, supported by my personal experience with God, I would say that his house has many mansions. You will find him under every rock and in every being, in the computer you are typing on and deep within your heart.
Jesus didn't have a bible. And the bible is written by man, and fought over with politics at the Council of Nicisea(?) where the books were chosen to include, and which to exclude. It is not the word of God, but the selection of writings by various men that elders in a new church put together. Those are facts. A valuable book nonetheless. Inspired by God and the work of Jesus.
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Post by jackjack on Jul 25, 2012 4:23:35 GMT 9.5
Sentient beings are very much a part of our world as other human beings are to us on earth; they come from various classes and have various kinds of rank, authority, power, and level of vibration. A number of the higher beings do rule over certain planets and on occasion, commune with certain humans beings--and sometimes, they have spoken with people who have had an OOBE.
Having said all that, I do not doubt that you had a spiritual encounter; what I doubt is whether or not the being at the end of the tunnel was actually God. See, it is the habit of these higher ranking spirits to deceive humans; and they love it when people think that they're God. Yes, they're powerful; yes, they have a high level of vibration. Yes, some are quite tall, handsome to boot (when you can see them), and yes, their energy can be quite overwhelming.
But don't let the bright lights and energy distract; you should be very careful with them and take what they say with a grain of salt. By the grace of God, I happened to be hidden from their view once and saw a portion of their meeting. While waiting for certain human spirits and their guides to arrive, the leader and his council looked down on the earth; the earth kinda became like a zoomed in globe, occasionally going to the local view of the territory where I was at the time. They were pointing to different parts of it and were in the middle of discussing what kind of war, mischief calamity they could do next when three human spirits and their guides arrived--two more showed up and the meeting began. The leader began discussing with the human spirits what they had done so far with the territory they'd been given and one of them proceeded to tell the leader what they had done; an argument insued shortly because the human wanted more land or a different group of spirits but the leader wanted him to do more with what he had and get more human souls--the human then complained that the spirits given him weren't cooperating very well or something and that keeping them was out of the question because the ones he had were very demanding and didn't always do what they were told.
Suddenly, they stopped; someone was watching them and they knew it...
But needless to say, I was whisked away--eventually however, I was brought back again. This time, the disobedient spirits were there and they were talking about how demanding the human was and how he always made them do things all the time. At this, the leader snorted and said something to the affect of "Those humans...they think that they have all the power and can get the demons to do whatever they want to do. They forget that "we" were the ones who gave the demons to them and that the demons do what WE say!" The leader then commanded the spirits to go back and continue reporting to him what the human was doing. Eventually, they were to no longer listen to the human at all and, if I remember correctly, he would lose a portion of his territory.
Thus was the end of the vision...
As I said; you cannot trust the higher powers. They are intent on deceiving humans and will stop at nothing to make their lives miserable. This is why I do not think that whoever you met was God at all; I think it was one of those higher powers who saw an opportunity to deceive another human spirit wandering through the tunnel of light. I think you are also aware of the fact that they have their own little worlds that they rule too and decorate in accordance with the fancies of the human spirit visiting them--a good analogy of this is the old poem "The Spider and the Fly."
Will you walk into my parlour?" said the Spider to the Fly, 'Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy; The way into my parlour is up a winding stair, And I've a many curious things to shew when you are there." Oh no, no," said the little Fly, "to ask me is in vain, For who goes up your winding stair can ne'er come down again."
"I'm sure you must be weary, dear, with soaring up so high; Will you rest upon my little bed?" said the Spider to the Fly. "There are pretty curtains drawn around; the sheets are fine and thin, And if you like to rest awhile, I'll snugly tuck you in!" Oh no, no," said the little Fly, "for I've often heard it said, They never, never wake again, who sleep upon your bed!"
Said the cunning Spider to the Fly, " Dear friend what can I do, To prove the warm affection I 've always felt for you? I have within my pantry, good store of all that's nice; I'm sure you're very welcome -- will you please to take a slice?" "Oh no, no," said the little Fly, "kind Sir, that cannot be, I've heard what's in your pantry, and I do not wish to see!"
"Sweet creature!" said the Spider, "you're witty and you're wise, How handsome are your gauzy wings, how brilliant are your eyes! I've a little looking-glass upon my parlour shelf, If you'll step in one moment, dear, you shall behold yourself." "I thank you, gentle sir," she said, "for what you 're pleased to say, And bidding you good morning now, I'll call another day."
The Spider turned him round about, and went into his den, For well he knew the silly Fly would soon come back again: So he wove a subtle web, in a little corner sly, And set his table ready, to dine upon the Fly. Then he came out to his door again, and merrily did sing, "Come hither, hither, pretty Fly, with the pearl and silver wing; Your robes are green and purple -- there's a crest upon your head; Your eyes are like the diamond bright, but mine are dull as lead!"
Alas, alas! how very soon this silly little Fly, Hearing his wily, flattering words, came slowly flitting by; With buzzing wings she hung aloft, then near and nearer drew, Thinking only of her brilliant eyes, and green and purple hue -- Thinking only of her crested head -- poor foolish thing! At last, Up jumped the cunning Spider, and fiercely held her fast. He dragged her up his winding stair, into his dismal den, Within his little parlour -- but she ne'er came out again!
And now dear little children, who may this story read, To idle, silly flattering words, I pray you ne'er give heed: Unto an evil counsellor, close heart and ear and eye, And take a lesson from this tale, of the Spider and the Fly.
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Post by stewartedwards on Jul 25, 2012 4:29:43 GMT 9.5
Having said all that, I do not doubt that you had a spiritual encounter; what I doubt is whether or not the being at the end of the tunnel was actually God. In this you would be correct jackjack, forgive me but I was testing you to see if you would pick up on this, and you have . The person at the gates was not God, but he did relay Gods request to me. And that was simple, if I could manage it to return. No pressure just a free choice.
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Post by jackjack on Jul 25, 2012 4:34:48 GMT 9.5
Having said all that, I do not doubt that you had a spiritual encounter; what I doubt is whether or not the being at the end of the tunnel was actually God. In this you would be correct jackjack, forgive me but I was testing you to see if you would pick up on this, and you have . The person at the gates was not God, but he did relay Gods request to me. And that was simple, if I could manage it to return. No pressure just a free choice. Did he say why exactly he wanted you to return? Or did you make up that part too?
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Post by stewartedwards on Jul 25, 2012 5:15:16 GMT 9.5
Did he say why exactly he wanted you to return?Or did you make up that part too? No he didn't. And I am not lying JackJack. Fortunately God will judge both of us one day, me for the second time. I did say you may have some trouble believing it. But God knows. If you want to know more you could always read my book "10 days in hospital" But fear not you can put it down to delierium caused by fever spike and hospital antibiotics.
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Post by paul on Jul 25, 2012 9:13:58 GMT 9.5
....it is the habit of these higher ranking spirits to deceive humans; and they love it when people think that they're God. ...... By the grace of God, I happened to be hidden from their view once and saw a portion of their meeting. ..... A profound experience indeed. So how did you know that it was by the grace of God rather that by the power of a still higher ranking entity that wanted you to think that it was God?
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Post by LorrB on Jul 25, 2012 9:16:14 GMT 9.5
Or did you make up that part too? JJ, we insist on respect for each other on this forum. Goodwill among men. Stewart is a much loved and well respected member of this forum and I can guarantee you that he has no need to make up stories just to impress.
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Post by paul on Jul 25, 2012 9:25:35 GMT 9.5
Are you able to say how having a son that was killed by humans and then raised, caused Jehovah to conquer the other gods? Yes; see, God loved the world so much He gave His Son so anyone who'd believe on Him would be saved. ..... This is even more interesting than I thought. So as I understand what you have written, God was able to defeat the other gods because the gods believed in God's son (Jesus). I still don't understand how that works. Surely if the gods believed in Jesus then Jehovah did not need to conquer them. Also if Jehovah created the universe and all in it, I don't understand why he would even need to conquer the other gods - being his own creation and thereby existing within him. And surely the gods were going to be saved anyway just like the human race, so what was the point of doing battle?
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Post by jackjack on Jul 25, 2012 16:50:11 GMT 9.5
No no no Paul; the powers know that Jesus is real but they don't believe in Him as their Lord. They serve the devil and understand very well that people are lost in sin. That's why they don't mention the fact that Jesus can save people from their sins; they would be working against their master if they did and not only that, they hold great animosity towards God because He loves human beings and wants them to be delivered from the power of sin. Why is this important? Because of the principle of atonement for sins. christianity.wikia.com/wiki/Atonement
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Post by jackjack on Jul 25, 2012 16:53:05 GMT 9.5
If there is no atonement of sins, then there is no release from sin.
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Post by jackjack on Jul 25, 2012 16:55:07 GMT 9.5
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Post by paul on Jul 25, 2012 17:04:34 GMT 9.5
Perhaps I have not understood the part about Jehovah overcoming the other gods. Can you explain that a bit more?
And did the gods also suffer from an original (but different) sin? Is that why they could be overcome by Jehovah after(?) the death of Jesus?
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