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Post by paul on Jul 12, 2012 12:09:49 GMT 9.5
For most humans emotions are more reliable than thoughts, but still feelings can be manipulated until the human has largely purified the persona. Experiences can be tested in various ways including directly, since the experienced event continues as an energy field. Masons are taught that they can use the "working tools" in a moral (metaphysical) sense but few do. That would certainly allow testing the experience for square connections to the landscape temple and plumb connections to the local temple in the heavens. If mystic ladder (veiled by Jacob's) is well traversed it is possible to test inner events for fakery - analogous to the TV news reports that use dramatisations. A fake event will not (afaik) contain the electricities. www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_precession_a.htmAnother direct test is to bring a well known inner plane entity to the event field and observe the interaction. Indirect tests are common - e.g. consistency with past events or existing beliefs, or consulting an evolved friend. Before acting upon important events it may be wise to test by multiple means.
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Post by paul on Jul 13, 2012 9:26:47 GMT 9.5
I wonder how much of the OT is edited to obscure. For example, when the OT uses the term "a certain man" we can be pretty certain that the writer or editor did not want us to know who it was. This account of the fleece and dew rather reminds me of The Gold of a Thousand Mornings www.scribd.com/doc/18797285/Armand-Barbault-Gold-of-a-Thousand-Mornings-1969 in which dew is collected for 1000 mornings as part of an alchemical process. I wonder if the original meaning is long gone in this case. The account of water drinking likewise seems a bit short on meaning. As I would not advise any human to follow a vengeful god, I look very carefully at the OT before accepting it as guidance. That said, one of the greatest stock market analysts, WD Gann used the OT for analysis and forecast of the market - based on timing and extent of moves. www.4shared.com/office/xwnYmQMI/The_Tunnel_Thru_the_Air_-_WD_G.html
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Post by jackjack on Jul 23, 2012 5:38:17 GMT 9.5
It seems to me that the god of Israel liked to be thought of as the most important of the Elohim, and his followers wrote him up that way, even though he controlled only a small territory and was jealous of other gods. Part of the write-up was presenting the god of Israel as the Creator, as compared to the occupier-manager of a very small part of an existing Creation. There is however an entity that manifests the local universes as its own body of incarnation. This entity is referred to by the functional name: the Great Architect of the Universe. An equally functional name is: The Source of All (that humans can detect). The body of manifestation of that entity is not an illusion for those lives that exist within it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=I649uJQDH8gGAOTU is O.Z.P.I.N.H.E.A.D But Jehovah said: "I am the Lord your God who brought you up out of the land of Egypt; you will have no other gods before me.Nuff said.
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Post by paul on Jul 23, 2012 8:40:10 GMT 9.5
>"I am the Lord your God who brought you up out of the land of Egypt; you will have no other gods before me.
No doubt his word was sufficient for many, reinforced by punishment for disobedience.
Nevertheless, Solomon, who was given wisdom by God, still worshipped many other Gods.
Should we aspire to the wisdom of Solomon?
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Post by jackjack on Jul 23, 2012 14:18:03 GMT 9.5
Hmmm...the wisdom of Solomon.
There is no doubt that Solomon was wise; however, it is also possible for someone who has much wisdom to "exchange the truth of God for a lie".
Solomon's key will get you nowhere.
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Post by paul on Jul 23, 2012 14:27:40 GMT 9.5
>Solomon's key will get you nowhere.
Did God take his gift of wisdom back from Solomon?
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Post by jackjack on Jul 23, 2012 15:59:59 GMT 9.5
The kind of wisdom portrayed in the Key of Solomon isn't from God; it's an introduction to magic.
Why do you think this kind of knowledge comes from God?
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Post by paul on Jul 23, 2012 18:02:16 GMT 9.5
I see now that you are talking about a medieval document called the Key of Solomon. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_of_SolomonThat would seem to be a bit off-topic when I was wondering how the wisdom given by God to Solomon allowed him to worship many gods. Although I suppose you could argue that the Old Testament has no better lineage than the Key of Solomon - being written and edited by unknown scribes over the centuries.
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Post by stewartedwards on Jul 23, 2012 20:48:22 GMT 9.5
Why do you think this kind of knowledge comes from God? Possibly because God created all? The source of everything. Jackjack, a bit of a random question, but do you think that the Lord walks amongst us today? And if so, how would you recognise him? Do you think that if he were to stroll up the Vatican or an Evangelical Christan church that he would be welcomed in or cast out? If there is one thing that I have leaarnt in life is that God really does work in mysterious ways, but the closer I have come to God the more amazed I have become at the simple sheer beauty of this world that he created. And this is the point - he created it, for all of its variety, and I trust he knows what he is doing. So there is a place for everyone, all views, all beliefs, for they are ultimatly sourced from him. Just some idle thoughts.
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Post by jackjack on Jul 24, 2012 1:14:31 GMT 9.5
I see now that you are talking about a medieval document called the Key of Solomon. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_of_SolomonThat would seem to be a bit off-topic when I was wondering how the wisdom given by God to Solomon allowed him to worship many gods. Although I suppose you could argue that the Old Testament has no better lineage than the Key of Solomon - being written and edited by unknown scribes over the centuries. Well, on analyzing it, you do find that it promotes summoning these different deities to aid you. Hence my reaction; there is no place in scripture for summoning other spirits to aid you. Now while KoS does say that the beings being mentioned are merely aspects of your character, it also states that they are spirits too so it looks like it's a handbook for introducing someone into magic. I did recognize the urns; I've seen them in nat'l cemeteries and often wondering why they creeped me out so much--now I know.
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Post by jackjack on Jul 24, 2012 1:26:33 GMT 9.5
Why do you think this kind of knowledge comes from God? Possibly because God created all? The source of everything. Jackjack, a bit of a random question, but do you think that the Lord walks amongst us today? And if so, how would you recognise him? Do you think that if he were to stroll up the Vatican or an Evangelical Christan church that he would be welcomed in or cast out? If there is one thing that I have leaarnt in life is that God really does work in mysterious ways, but the closer I have come to God the more amazed I have become at the simple sheer beauty of this world that he created. And this is the point - he created it, for all of its variety, and I trust he knows what he is doing. So there is a place for everyone, all views, all beliefs, for they are ultimatly sourced from him. Just some idle thoughts. I understand your perspective; however, are we to attribute to God the maliciousness that resides in the human heart? Does God make people evil? If He does, then He is no God at all; for in order for God to be God, He must be better and higher then His creation--if He isn't, then He is not worthy of worship. True; God is vast and deep and His love is so immense--however, there are certain things about His character that we can know and experience for ourselves. As Paul says, "And to know the love of God which passes knowledge." There are some things that we can learn and know about God that give us hope for a better life now and in the future. www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZoq8n3AG2g
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Post by stewartedwards on Jul 24, 2012 1:40:05 GMT 9.5
I understand your perspective; however, are we to attribute to God the maliciousness that resides in the human heart? God created all, and that includes freewill. And with freewill, people will make choice. Others will be led and influenced by those who have made choices. Also, the seeds of darkness lies within all of our hearts, just as the flame of light does. Why else we we all at some point, do bad things? Even if it is just loose our temper or simply consider stealing a chocolate bar as a child? No see above. Also consider war. One sides generals tell their troops to trust in God, and the other side do exactly the same. Or one religion says we are the only way, and other does likewise. God must shed a tear at what many do in his name (murder, torture, maim, be intolerant and so on). But that is human nature for you. But when you drive it all back to the source, God created all, and he would have done so for a very good reason. Perhpas it was to help people stop and think and find their way home?
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Post by jackjack on Jul 24, 2012 3:03:15 GMT 9.5
This is the main thing I'm taking issue with; and Paul has inferred the same thing. How can you say the Bible is no different then the other texts out there?
1. The Bible doesn't teach people to practice any form of magic 2. The Bible doesn't teach people to have wild orgies during the worship service 3. The Bible doesn't teach people to commit grisly forms of sacrifice (ie the bloody mithras bull ceremony, child sacrifice) 4. The Bible most certainly does not encourage people to worship God under any form or image. 5. The Bible doesn't encourage people to offer incense to other deities 6. The Bible doesn't promote hero worship 7. The Bible doesn't permit believers to mistreat strangers and non-believers
The list goes on..
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Post by jackjack on Jul 24, 2012 3:05:48 GMT 9.5
This is why I'm pretty sure that there is no way that the deity who inspired all of the ancient mysteries also inspired the writers of the scriptures.
No way at all.
It violates God's Name when you say stuff like that.
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Post by stewartedwards on Jul 24, 2012 4:44:29 GMT 9.5
How can you say the Bible is no different then the other texts out there? I never said nor implied that jackjack.
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Post by jackjack on Jul 24, 2012 7:11:59 GMT 9.5
How can you say the Bible is no different then the other texts out there? I never said nor implied that jackjack. Didn't you say "So there is a place for everyone, all views, all beliefs, for they are ultimatly sourced from him"? Didn't you also say that everything's source is from God? If you did, then how else am I supposed to interpret what you're saying? If everything's source is from God, including all viewpoints and religious beliefs, then it follows that Christianity is to be regarded at the same level as the other religious beliefs.
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Post by paul on Jul 24, 2012 9:19:20 GMT 9.5
>If everything's source is from God, including all viewpoints and religious beliefs, then it follows that Christianity is to be regarded at the same level as the other religious beliefs.
That is an interesting proposition. It would suggest that a lump of granite is just as valuable as a human being. This might actually be true from God's perspective but it is not from the perspective of the granite or the human.
So, is value relative to the purpose of the beholder?
If so, Christianity might be more valuable to some sorts of human than other sorts. Perhaps that is why Christianity is much more common in Western countries.
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Post by LorrB on Jul 24, 2012 9:47:17 GMT 9.5
Jesus said "what I do you can do also" ..
Fatted calves and lambs aside, what Abraham and Isaac ..."Then God said, "Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about." (Genesis 22:2).
Jesus? Images of Him everywhere.
Jesus?
You have just admitted to me that you have not read all of the Bible . All that smiting, smoting - whole communities, men, woman and children.
These stories were the key for me to explore the Bible and other Sacred Texts more closely. Some amazing discoveries and journeys are to be had by those that do not take things literally. Have you ever considered JJ that one of the supreme tests put before us might be that of loving our 'enemy'. Jesus taught us to turn our cheek 70 x 70 if needs be. He taught us to forgive even those that would kill our physical bodies. In our Fathers House there are many mansions, maybe one for each belief system, maybe even these mansions are just one more step up Jacobs Ladder ?
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Post by jackjack on Jul 24, 2012 18:29:38 GMT 9.5
Answering this would require an entire one hour or more lecture on the nature and character of the Holy Spirit. Your literature you have been reading has been influencing you to believe that all spirits, while they may be of different classes, come from the same source--as Zeus was to the Greek Pantheon or Ra or Horus was to the Egyptian pantheon. You've been taught that you can call on them for assistance in whatever you wish to do. You've been taught to receive instructions from them as well. You've been trained to leave your body by the powers of the elements and elementals. But you do not understand the nature of Jehovah or you are willfully ignorant of the simple fact that there is another God who is more powerful then the deities that you worship for strength, power, and advice. His ways are higher then theirs and He has conquered them ALL through the cross and the resurrection of His Son! Calling on, receiving instruction, and leaving your body by the power of the Holy Ghost is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT then calling on "higher powers" or your "higher self" for assistance. Sure, some of the experiences may be similar but the power source is of a far different character then these "lords", "masters", and "higher selves" you've been taught to worship. Their burdens they lay on you are very heavy compared to Christ's yoke. In fact, I've met one of these princes of hell; he had very dark eyes, dressed in a tattered black garment, smelled of fire, brimstone, and sulfur and communicated to you through his eyes and by his thoughts. His head was like that of a goat's. This prince has great power and many people worship him as a god and because of this, he lets them use his power. Why ANYONE would want to worship such a hideous thing I don't know but I can tell you this much; these powers are anything but benevolent and in fact, are part of the reason why there are so many wars that occur in the world. Why ANYONE would want their power is beyond me. Anyways... There is no precedent in scripture for sacrificing children to God; the whole reason why God told Abraham to do this was to test his faith. In fact, Abraham believed that even if he DID kill Isaac, God would raise him from the dead! For if you recall, God made a promise to Abraham that Isaac was the seed of promise, the seed of faith--through him would come the nation of Israel. You can read more about this in Paul's Epistle to the Romans on the significance of this event. The problem isn't with the images; the problem is when you bow down to the images and worship them. And as for Jesus being "just a hero", need I remind you that the scriptures call Him "Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace"? You worship Jesus because He IS God--not because he's a psyched up version of Hercules or something! Of course it happened--all that smiting and stoning and so on. Just look up Jericho; archaeology shows us that everyone there was mercilessly slaughtered. Just like God told Israel to do. Makes me wonder if anyone ever bothered to search out the reason why God told them to do such a thing. Oh but that is just oh so barbaric of Jehovah to even suggest such a terrible thing... Then again... ...the Egyptians were very proud because they thought Pharaoh was God and they were all God's children and therefore better then everyone else. Of course, after the Egyptian Empire was squashed, Marduk and his pet dragon appeared, carrying his golden tablets and demanding child sacrifice; not to mention all the popular fertility cults where many wild orgies occurred. Afterwards, the sword slaughtered many of the Babylonians and a great fire inspired the bloody rituals in the Rites of Mithras and Minerva--but to no avail. For the great fire was no match for God's Hammer--of course, Thor isn't God by any stretch of the imagination. Rather, God used the Gauls to punish the Roman Empire for making a golden calf. You forget a very important detail in the story of Jacob's ladder: First of all, note that God identifies Himself, not as the God of the other nations but rather as the God of Abraham and Isaac. God made a promise to Abraham; that he would have many children that would own land on all four points of the compass. Secondly, Isaac was the promised child that God would use to begin the nation of Israel; if God is going to fulfill His promise, then Jacob would be the one chosen to continue that fulfillment. See, it's kinda like this; Abraham served and worshiped Jehovah. As a result, he receives the privileges and benefits associated with worshiping Jehovah and these privileges and benefits and burdens are passed on from one child to the next as Jehovha deems proper. Going further, Abraham's God made it clear; that a Messiah would appear to destroy the power of the dragon. But in order for that promise to come to pass, it was necessary to have a group of people who trusted in and had faith that God would finish His promises that He had made; so God had to decide who would be worthy to have the privilege--He ended up choosing Israel, a very small insignificant tribe. But that wasn't enough; a person had to be chosen to kickstart the tribe. So God chose Abraham and promised to take care of him if he would serve Him. he also promised to give Abraham a son (whom God had chosen to be the ancestor of the future tribe that would soon become a powerful nation). Having said all that, it was a very long time before Israel become a powerful people and left Egypt--some say around 450 years or so. During that time, God wanted to give the people in those other nations a chance to repent of their debauchery but they wouldn't. So just like God used the Gauls to smash the Romans, God used Israel to hammer the other nations who wouldn't repent of their debauchery. Of course, the next question is, how does Ephesians 6:12 fit into all this? If you want more info about the star, here is a good link about it; bethlehemstar.net/stage/stage.htm
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Post by paul on Jul 24, 2012 19:09:43 GMT 9.5
> there is another God who is more powerful then the deities that you worship for strength, power, and advice. His ways are higher then theirs and He has conquered them ALL through the cross and the resurrection of His Son!
This theology is quite new to me. If I understand your proposition: Jehovah conquered other gods through having a son and having that son killed by humans and then raised up.
Are you able to say how having a son that was killed by humans and then raised, caused Jehovah to conquer the other gods?
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