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Post by LorrB on Aug 20, 2010 9:11:45 GMT 9.5
A Clue? ...By an eliminative process, then, we arrive at the sole remaining raison d'etre for the spread and attractiveness of the Masonic system, namely, the significance and implications involved within its ceremonial rites. Now if these, or some subtly-speaking voice in these, be not, when all irrelevant and accretionary considerations have been removed, the fundamental essence and the secret of the vitality and the development of Masonry, there remains no justification for its existence worthy of account. It matters not, that in the case of a large majority of the Fraternity that voice is not a loud one or that the significance, of its purport is but dimly recognized; and it may be admitted that among Masons themselves there are but few who have entered into a full intellectual realization of their own heritage. The fact remains that something veiled, latent and deep down in those rites speaks to something that is latent and responsive, however faintly, in those who participate in them; some remote causa causans, apart from the mere impressiveness and solemnity of the rites themselves, which for most remains unrealized and unformulated in the consciousness, but which, nevertheless, induces those who partake in them to feel that they are in the presence of a mystery that goes to the root of their being and that it is good for them to be there.
Read more here.. www.brad.ac.uk/webofhiram/?section=walter_leslie_wilmshurst&page=Mystical.html
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Post by paul on Aug 20, 2010 9:59:02 GMT 9.5
Some brethren have recounted that their character changed quite quickly upon entering Masonry - without any obvious mechanism. That suggests an influence that is not easily recognisable by rational methods
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Post by choochoo808 on Nov 2, 2011 5:00:26 GMT 9.5
I'm grateful for having been invited to this forum, and happy to come across this post in particular.
I was raised this year and feel as though I'm still stumbling through the dark. Why do we walk in circles to practice charity? Why do we exchange grips and words, and what is the purpose of certain motions with our arms? Why can I not converse upon Masonry with certain people? I'm left feeling a bit dim. I don't want to be spoon-fed a single thing, but at the same time I don't even know if I'm looking at the right map. Therefore, how do I know if any guideposts along the way have any merit? It's monumentally confusing.
FC was embraced with zeal and I researched voraciously. Some things deeply, some things cursory, but I diligently cast my net far and wide. The liberal arts. Jerusalem. Kundalini. The Templars. Athelstan. The arks. Macrocosm. Medieval guilds.
I still don't understand, unfortunately. On the flip-side, I feel a marked change in my character indeed. When it comes to goodness, even the most benign gesture, I no longer hesitate. My perspective is undoubtedly broader, my sense of where I fit into the universe somehow keener. Ironically, I feel proud for being associated with this group that I don't even completely understand. I've met good people, the journey has been rewarding... but as LorrB can attest, I'm still waiting for that "Eureka!" moment when things start to make sense. I want to be a good Mason, not some guy who shows up, goes through the motions and dies without a full appreciation for what this is all about.
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Post by paul on Nov 2, 2011 5:26:12 GMT 9.5
Welcome choochoo808.
You may find it rewarding to look through some of the old threads. Do ask questions. There are no questions too simple.
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Post by LorrB on Nov 2, 2011 7:52:19 GMT 9.5
Welcome Choochoo8 (your name reflects your feeling that you are going round in circles, No? - or could it be you are searching for eternal truths? both 0 and and 8 on its side are symbols for eternity and infinity.) Paul gives good advice - re checking out old threads. In the early days (and this forum is not all that old) the two of us posted lots with little response, because no-one knew where we were. (Purposely. As you know from other forums you may have visited, some masons can be quite ungentlemanly when it come to seeking after knowledge of the mysteries and privileges promised by Freemasonry). Please feel free to invite others of like mind to join you here in your search for knowledge, understanding and wisdom. We may not be too much further along the path than yourself (if at all), but we are happy to share our little treasures with you. Retain only that which 'speaks' to you, the rest ignore unless it starts to nag.. which is a good hint that there is another path you need to explore.
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Post by paul on Nov 5, 2011 8:48:58 GMT 9.5
... something veiled, latent and deep down in those rites speaks to something that is latent and responsive.
I was reminded of that when today I read a quote that referred to Masonry containing "the ritual of the Deity" (or words to that effect) Thus the earthly Masonic temples are intended to reflect the temple(s) in the heavens so that if The Seven Masons Who Make a Lodge Perfect condescend to enter an earthly temple, Their presence does indeed make that lodge perfect.
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Post by tamrin on Nov 5, 2011 16:46:51 GMT 9.5
Who are "The Seven Masons Who Make a Lodge Perfect"?
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Post by tamrin on Nov 5, 2011 16:49:59 GMT 9.5
Thus the earthly Masonic temples are intended to reflect the temple(s) in the heavens so that if The Seven Masons Who Make a Lodge Perfect condescend to enter an earthly temple, Their presence does indeed make that lodge perfect. "True Masons" scorn condescension. They meet on the Level, act on the Plumb, and part on the Square.
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Post by paul on Nov 5, 2011 16:54:14 GMT 9.5
Who are "The Seven Masons Who Make a Lodge Perfect"? That perhaps is one of the secrets of Masonry. A clue can be found clearly in ritual of the Royal Order of Scotland. As for condescending - the essential meaning in this case is stooping - descending to participate in a human lodge.
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Post by stewart edwards on Nov 5, 2011 17:45:06 GMT 9.5
Thus the earthly Masonic temples are intended to reflect the temple(s) in the heavens so that if The Seven Masons Who Make a Lodge Perfect condescend to enter an earthly temple, Their presence does indeed make that lodge perfect. "True Masons" scorn condescension. They meet on the Level, act on the Plumb, and part on the Square. Do you put the uNited Grand Lodge of England in the same category as Paul here Tamrin given that their primary tenet includes thewords "every true mason will" (which implies if you dont you aren't). Just curious if you are going to write to ugle and tell them off in the same way you have Paul?
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Post by tamrin on Nov 6, 2011 7:29:05 GMT 9.5
Who are "The Seven Masons Who Make a Lodge Perfect"? That perhaps is one of the secrets of Masonry...From this I presume you do not know or, having introduced the subject, choose not to explain The explanation I received was that three rule a Lodge (the W.M. and two Ws.); Five hold a Lodge (the W.M., two Ws. and two F.Cs.); and seven or more make it perfect (two E.As., added to those already named), "without which number no Lodge is Perfect, neither can any candidate be legally initiated therein." Do your condescending seven (aliens I presume) make a perfect Lodge "more perfect"?
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Post by tamrin on Nov 6, 2011 7:40:02 GMT 9.5
"True Masons" scorn condescension. They meet on the Level, act on the Plumb, and part on the Square. Do you put the uNited Grand Lodge of England in the same category as Paul here Tamrin given that their primary tenet includes thewords "every true mason will" (which implies if you dont you aren't). Just curious if you are going to write to ugle and tell them off in the same way you have Paul?I thought you were taking it upon yourself to do so. Stewart, we have been over this. I have no major issue with the UGLE web site statement. YOU are the one upset by it. Before this disagreement with you, I might well have written the same thing myself as I accept that tolerance of some things is essential to the expression of Brotherly Love (but not, say, tolerance of injustice). Repeating what I have already said, there is no mention of tolerance in our ritual. What, with your second-hand knowledge, you keep referring to as the primary tenet of the Craft is one of what we call one of the Three Grand Pillars on which it is founded, namely Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth. On the UGLE site (your source), we read: Brotherly Love Every true Freemason will show tolerance and respect for the opinions of others and behave with kindness and understanding to his fellow creatures.
Relief Freemasons are taught to practise charity and to care - not only for their own - but also for the community as a whole, both by charitable giving and by voluntary efforts and works as individuals.
Truth Freemasons strive for truth, requiring high moral standards and aiming to achieve them in their own lives. Freemasons believe that these principles represent a way of achieving higher standards in life. Thus, tolerance gets a mention there in the author’s well-meaning, succinct explanation to non-masons of what we mean by Brotherly Love. Tolerance is NOT listed as a tenet in and of itself, let alone the "primary tenet" (Brotherly Love). So, even your source does not say what you keep telling others it does. In the initiation ritual and in the subsequent examination the terms Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth are mentioned but not explained. They are explained in the Sectional Lectures, but tolerance is not mentioned in that explanation. End of story! I hope I will not need to keep revisiting this plain fact for your benefit.
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Post by paul on Nov 6, 2011 7:51:56 GMT 9.5
...The explanation I received was that three rule a Lodge (the W.M. and two Ws.); Five hold a Lodge (the W.M., two Ws. and two F.Cs.); and seven or more make it perfect (two E.As., added to those already named), "without which number no Lodge is Perfect.... Masonry is veiled in allegory and the above is one such. As for the nature of the seven, there is value in considering the Revelation of St John (one of the traditional patrons of Masonry)
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Post by tamrin on Nov 6, 2011 9:20:59 GMT 9.5
As for the nature of the seven, there is value in considering the Revelation of St John (one of the traditional patrons of Masonry) The stars representing the lights of The Seven Churches of Asia? Also part of the Waldensians' symbolism. Yeah, it might be a nod in that direction. However, you are drawing a long, allegorical bow and twisting a perfectly practical usage (specifying what constitutes a masonic quorum for the purpose of initiations) and making it out to have some literal, weird, extra-terrestrial and unnecessary inner meaning. There is more value in considering Ockham's Razor (Freemasonry has depth but it is NOT deceptive).
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Post by LorrB on Nov 7, 2011 8:45:13 GMT 9.5
As for the nature of the seven, there is value in considering the Revelation of St John (one of the traditional patrons of Masonry) The stars representing the lights of the The Seven Churches of Asia? Also part of the Waldensians' symbolism. Yeah, it might be a nod in that direction. However, you are drawing a long, allegorical bow and twisting a perfectly practical usage (specifying what constitutes a masonic quorum for the purpose of initiations) and making it out to have some literal, weird, extra-terrestrial and unnecessary inner meaning. There is more value in considering Ockham's Razor (Freemasonry has depth but it is NOT deceptive). Looks can deceive - the tramp sitting on the doorstep might well be a prince in disguise. RE the Seven Churches of Asia .. "The Book of Revelation, also called Revelation to John, Apocalypse of John (pronounced /əˈpɒkəlɨps/, from the Greek: Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰωάννου, Apokálypsis Iōánnou), and Revelation of Jesus Christ is the last canonical book of the New Testament in the Christian Bible. It is the only biblical book that is wholly composed of apocalyptic literature."
Some views about it: "The esoterist views Revelation as bearing multiple levels of meaning, the lowest being the literal or "dead-letter." Those who are instructed in esoteric knowledge enter gradually into more subtle levels of understanding of the text. They see the book as delivering both a series of warnings for humanity and a detailed account of internal, spiritual processes of the individual soul.
The Gnostic Kabbalist believes that Revelation (like Genesis) is a very profound book of Kabbalistic symbolism. This view is held by teachers such as H.P. Blavatsky, Eliphas Levi, Rudolf Steiner and Samael Aun Weor.[citation needed] Edgar Cayce held the view that the Book of Revelation is symbolic of the body and that each emblem, emotion and condition relate to self. For example, the 24 elders of Revelation 4:4 relate to the 12 pairs (24) of cranial nerves; and the seven churches of Asia in Revelation Ch. 1 are symbolic of the 7 chakras or spiritual centers.
The seven seals also are also seen to represent the seven chakras and the consequence of opening them is the unleashing of the physiological forces that reside there. The Second Coming is thus a personal event, the integration of your spiritual self with your animal self, resulting in a fully conscious human. Some scholars have noted the rider on a white horse as being similar to the Buddhist and Hindu myths of Kalki who is considered the last avatar in the cycle of ages and is also associated with the end of time.
The esoteric view also presents the Book as the Christian yoga (union) practices text on death and rebirth in Christ. The four horsemen are described as the four elemental forces (fire, water, air, earth) and are used in the spiritual purification of the body and mind. The characters of Revelation are considered anthropomorphized aspects of human consciousness."
"Nineteenth-century agnostic Robert G. Ingersoll branded Revelation "the insanest of all books". Thomas Jefferson omitted it entirely from the Bible he edited, and wrote that he "considered it as merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams". "Martin Luther found it an offensive piece of work" and "John Calvin had grave doubts about its value." " Source and further information: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation
Read more: What is the book of revelation? | Answerbag www.answerbag.com/q_view/916438#ixzz1cyBj1SBz
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Post by LorrB on Nov 7, 2011 8:45:16 GMT 9.5
As for the nature of the seven, there is value in considering the Revelation of St John (one of the traditional patrons of Masonry) The stars representing the lights of the The Seven Churches of Asia? Also part of the Waldensians' symbolism. Yeah, it might be a nod in that direction. However, you are drawing a long, allegorical bow and twisting a perfectly practical usage (specifying what constitutes a masonic quorum for the purpose of initiations) and making it out to have some literal, weird, extra-terrestrial and unnecessary inner meaning. There is more value in considering Ockham's Razor (Freemasonry has depth but it is NOT deceptive). Looks can deceive - the tramp sitting on the doorstep might well be a prince in disguise. RE the Seven Churches of Asia .. "The Book of Revelation, also called Revelation to John, Apocalypse of John (pronounced /əˈpɒkəlɨps/, from the Greek: Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰωάννου, Apokálypsis Iōánnou), and Revelation of Jesus Christ is the last canonical book of the New Testament in the Christian Bible. It is the only biblical book that is wholly composed of apocalyptic literature."
Some views about it: "The esoterist views Revelation as bearing multiple levels of meaning, the lowest being the literal or "dead-letter." Those who are instructed in esoteric knowledge enter gradually into more subtle levels of understanding of the text. They see the book as delivering both a series of warnings for humanity and a detailed account of internal, spiritual processes of the individual soul.
The Gnostic Kabbalist believes that Revelation (like Genesis) is a very profound book of Kabbalistic symbolism. This view is held by teachers such as H.P. Blavatsky, Eliphas Levi, Rudolf Steiner and Samael Aun Weor.[citation needed] Edgar Cayce held the view that the Book of Revelation is symbolic of the body and that each emblem, emotion and condition relate to self. For example, the 24 elders of Revelation 4:4 relate to the 12 pairs (24) of cranial nerves; and the seven churches of Asia in Revelation Ch. 1 are symbolic of the 7 chakras or spiritual centers.
The seven seals also are also seen to represent the seven chakras and the consequence of opening them is the unleashing of the physiological forces that reside there. The Second Coming is thus a personal event, the integration of your spiritual self with your animal self, resulting in a fully conscious human. Some scholars have noted the rider on a white horse as being similar to the Buddhist and Hindu myths of Kalki who is considered the last avatar in the cycle of ages and is also associated with the end of time.
The esoteric view also presents the Book as the Christian yoga (union) practices text on death and rebirth in Christ. The four horsemen are described as the four elemental forces (fire, water, air, earth) and are used in the spiritual purification of the body and mind. The characters of Revelation are considered anthropomorphized aspects of human consciousness."
"Nineteenth-century agnostic Robert G. Ingersoll branded Revelation "the insanest of all books". Thomas Jefferson omitted it entirely from the Bible he edited, and wrote that he "considered it as merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams". "Martin Luther found it an offensive piece of work" and "John Calvin had grave doubts about its value." " Source and further information: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation
Read more: What is the book of revelation? | Answerbag www.answerbag.com/q_view/916438#ixzz1cyBj1SBz
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Post by LorrB on Nov 7, 2011 9:07:42 GMT 9.5
More on Revelations.. Cayce described the true nature between humanity and God. Cayce revealed that humans actually have three different levels of consciousness: the physical consciousness (the personality), the subconsciousness (the soul) and the super consciousness (the spirit). One of our most important goals in life is to "awaken" our super conscious mind to attain what Cayce called "at-one-ment" with God. (To learn how to do this click here)
The super conscious mind is called by many names by many religions in many different cultures. Some of these names are: Buddha consciousness, Christ consciousness, the Collective Mind, the Universal Mind, the Collective Unconsciousness, the Holy Spirit, Brahman, God, the Clear White Light, Allah, Higher Self, the Mind of Christ, etc.
Cayce's references to "the Christ", "the Christ consciousness" and "the "Mind of Christ" has little to do with the personality known as Jesus. Cayce revealed that Jesus became "the Christ", in that he attained a full manifestation of the "Christ consciousness" - the divine nature within humanity. It is God's desire for all of humanity to become "Christs" (or "Buddhas" if you live in the East). Such a condition will truly bring the Kingdom of God to the Earth. Cayce revealed that the Book of Revelation is the symbolic story of how humanity in general (and a human in particular) attains this manifestation of the divine.
Might Christ, or Buddha, Consciousness be that which is symbolized by Solomon's Crown? The subconsciousness & the superconsciousness might be illustrated by caves and mountaintops, maybe waking consciousness might be illustrated by deserts, and wildernesses.
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Post by paul on Nov 7, 2011 9:10:01 GMT 9.5
...waking consciousness might be illustrated by deserts, and wildernesses. With wailing and gnashing of teeth?
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Post by tamrin on Nov 7, 2011 9:29:01 GMT 9.5
RE the Seven Churches of Asia .. I fear your selection was a bit of a curate's egg. Moreover, it leave the question begging as to what The Seven Churches of Asia have to do with Freemasonry. I suggest the relevance may lie in the source of the esoteric content introduced in the 1720's deriving proximately from proto-Reformation sources. At the time of the Reformation, the Waldensians were the last survivors in Europe of the so-called "heretical" groups which at one time were mainly represented by the Cathars (who appear to have merged with the Waldensians). These groups opposed the authority of Rome and claimed to derive from Orthodox groups in the East which had split from the mainstream at the first Council of Nicea. To them The Seven Churches of Asia represented the old, apostolic church and identifying with these Churches gave them an air of legitimacy. Moreover, they claimed to have preserved the mysteries of the early church. If there is a connection, it may be found in parallels between Essene and Masonic traditions. The emblem of the Waldensians: A candle, supported by the Bible, surrounded by seven stars (representing the churches) and featuring their motto: Lux Lucet in Tenebris (a Light Shining in the Darkness). An early masonic T.B., note the similar motto (center, near top).
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Post by paul on Nov 7, 2011 9:33:17 GMT 9.5
Actually I did not mention the 7 Churches of Asia. I have no idea of their relevance to Masonry.
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