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Post by jumping the gun on May 26, 2013 20:26:40 GMT 9.5
Back to the beginning I suggest: what is peculiar about Masonic morality? Back to the beginning: Why are you jumping the gun with your "Ritual for a new masonry" without first settling that question? The anchor point is in the West where the officer represents the angelic kingdom. Why would the angelic kingdom be in the West? What makes the angelic kingdom suitable to be the anchor point? In what sense is this Ritual for a new Masonry masonic? “Let us be well assured of the matter of fact, before we trouble ourselves with enquiring into the cause.” - Bernard Fontenelle
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Post by stepnwolf on May 27, 2013 2:27:46 GMT 9.5
Back to the beginning I suggest: what is peculiar about Masonic morality? Back to the beginning: Why are you jumping the gun with your "Ritual for a new masonry" without first settling that question? Why would the angelic kingdom be in the West? What makes the angelic kingdom suitable to be the anchor point? In what sense is this Ritual for a new Masonry masonic? “Let us be well assured of the matter of fact, before we trouble ourselves with enquiring into the cause.” - Bernard Fontenelle[/quote] Old Bernard did have a way with words, but he failed to see how some investigations proceed. In this case, I suspect, you raise the new Masonry up the flag poll and see if anyone salutes. As noted elsewhere I'd prefer "another" rather than "new," but no matter. If nothing else, it is an exercise of visualization. I'm reminded of that Australian frog that tries to eat anything smaller than himself -- even shoe leather on a human foot. We think the frog rather stupid, don't we? If he can't eat it, he may start making sexual advances. Some people are like that. They roam about thinking eat eat eat or fight fight fight. I wonder if indigestion ever bothers them.
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Post by paul on May 27, 2013 7:34:53 GMT 9.5
... Back to the beginning I suggest: what is peculiar about Masonic morality? It seems this is a most difficult question to answer in any meaningful way. Perhaps it is useful to consider why this Masonic morality needed to be veiled? Is the veiling to prevent the brethren from practicing the morality? Or is it to prevent the unworthy understanding what the veiled morality might be? Even worse: is the word "morality" itself a veiling? I wonder if those peculiar implements veiled by the term "working tools" might be of use
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Post by LorrB on May 27, 2013 10:30:31 GMT 9.5
Morality Play
Allegorical drama of 15th–16th-century Europe. The plays' characters personified moral qualities (such as charity or vice) or abstractions (such as death or youth). One of the main types of vernacular drama of its time, it provided a transition from liturgical drama to professional secular drama. The plays were short works, usually performed by semi-professional acting troupes that relied on public support. Everyman (c. 1495), featuring Everyman's summons by Death and his journey to the grave, is considered the greatest morality play.
encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Morality+tale
The Somonyng of Everyman (The Summoning of Everyman), usually referred to simply as Everyman, is a late 15th-century English morality play. Like John Bunyan's 1678 Christian novel Pilgrim's Progress, Everyman examines the question of Christian salvation by use of allegorical characters, and what Man must do to attain it. The premise is that the good and evil deeds of one's life will be tallied by God after death, as in a ledger book. The play is the allegorical accounting of the life of Everyman, who represents all mankind. In the course of the action, Everyman tries to convince other characters to accompany him in the hope of improving his account. All the characters are also allegorical, each personifying an abstract idea such as Fellowship, (material) Goods, and Knowledge. The conflict between good and evil is dramatized by the interactions between characters
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everyman_(play) The peculiarity of the Masonic morality play is that it does not stop at Death, indicating that we are more than a body. An flawed individual who knows how to operate without the body anchoring him firmly to the ground might prove problematic both for the individual and society generally .. hence the necessary veiling.
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Post by paul on May 27, 2013 10:33:49 GMT 9.5
>The peculiarity of the Masonic morality play is that it does not stop at Death
I am not sure how peculiar that might be. The Book of the Dead appears in at least 2 cultures in much more detailed fashion than in Masonry.
And can we unveil those parts of the morality that are veiled in allegory?
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Post by LorrB on May 27, 2013 12:33:14 GMT 9.5
Masons are encouraged to read The Book of the Dead. The original Egyptian name for the text we know as The Book of the Dead, an ancient Egyptian funerary text, is rw nw prt m hrw which translates as "Book of Coming Forth by Day" or "Book of emerging forth into the Light". ... You would be surprised at how many Christians are offended when someone offers them evidence of survival beyond the death of the body ... Maybe the veiling is encouraging us to consider that the journery of discovery is just as important (or even more so ? ) than the destination.
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Post by paul on May 27, 2013 12:39:11 GMT 9.5
>You would be surprised at how many Christians are offended when someone offers them evidence of survival beyond the death of the bod
Many years ago I told my mother that I knew I had a soul - she was a devout Catholic - and she replied: You are weird!
She knew from experience that only belief was possible.
>Maybe the veiling is encouraging us to....
There is an earlier question: Is the statement "peculiar system of morality ....." itself a veiling?
For example the word "system" in some earlier version is "science"
A science of morality could be a bit scary - mad scientists practising upon the unwary.
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Post by LorrB on May 27, 2013 13:24:40 GMT 9.5
>You would be surprised at how many Christians are offended when someone offers them evidence of survival beyond the death of the bod Many years ago I told my mother that I knew I had a soul - she was a devout Catholic - and she replied: You are weird! That made me laugh. I was awakened one night by someone poking me on the chest. When I opened my eyes I could see the face of a recently deceased colleague, which then instantly disappeared. I told another colleague ( a Church of Christ pastor) the story and he said "You are weird!) ;D
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Post by paul on May 27, 2013 14:31:20 GMT 9.5
Perhaps perception of the spiritual worlds is restricted to saints who are long dead
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Post by LorrB on May 27, 2013 15:38:00 GMT 9.5
It is odd that people will accept in an instant what the ancient seers, prophets and people who converse with god said, but totally ignore or laugh at the seers, prophets and visionaries of their own era.
Maybe it is too close for comfort.
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Post by paul on May 27, 2013 15:39:29 GMT 9.5
>Is the statement "peculiar system of morality ....." itself a veiling?
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Post by Desaguliers on May 27, 2013 18:04:31 GMT 9.5
Perhaps it is useful to consider why this Masonic morality needed to be veiled? Consider the religious strife at the time modern masonry was organised. An inclusive morality might have been dangerous.
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Post by paul on May 27, 2013 18:32:31 GMT 9.5
>An inclusive morality might have been dangerous.
So is the veiled morality exclusive?
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Post by Inclusive on May 27, 2013 18:35:36 GMT 9.5
So is the veiled morality exclusive? Are you serious?
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Post by paul on May 27, 2013 18:58:36 GMT 9.5
The taught Masonic morality seems very plain - do unto others and love God.
So what is the system of morality veiled in allegory?
Is there no veiling after all?
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Post by Tom Bombadil on May 27, 2013 20:07:57 GMT 9.5
The taught Masonic morality seems very plain - do unto others and love God. Brotherly love, Relief and Truth sound deceptively simple but their depths are revealed over a lifetime.
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Post by paul on May 27, 2013 20:12:00 GMT 9.5
>Brotherly love, Relief and Truth
So what is veiled in allegory?
Why is it so hard to get that question answered? Does no one know?
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Post by inclusive morality on May 27, 2013 20:29:24 GMT 9.5
>Brotherly love, Relief and Truth So what is veiled in allegory? Why is it so hard to get that question answered? Does no one know? Consider the religious strife at the time modern masonry was organised. An inclusive morality might have been dangerous. At the time seemingly hard sciences were veiled in allegory. Even mathematics was regarded with suspicion. How much more so a system of morality which taught that Protestants could meet with Catholics and even Jews without proselytizing. What is more, where the members set their own rules and elected their own officers, democratically governing themselves from the bottom-up and setting a pattern for the wider society.
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Post by paul on May 27, 2013 20:45:18 GMT 9.5
>much more so a system of morality which taught that Protestants could meet with Catholics and even Jews without proselytizing.
So what was veiled in allegory was that any suitable male can join? Surely that was well known to the Roman church.
Does no one know what is veiled in allegory?
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Post by democracy on May 27, 2013 20:49:51 GMT 9.5
>much more so a system of morality which taught that Protestants could meet with Catholics and even Jews without proselytizing. So what was veiled in allegory was that any suitable male can join? Surely that was well known to the Roman church. Does no one know what is veiled in allegory? ....setting a pattern for the wider society. I am not sure I can be any clearer.
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