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Post by paul on Jan 30, 2013 7:53:58 GMT 9.5
Smithee has raised an interesting topic: Should the Mysteries be shouted from the rooftops?
Mathew reports Jesus as supporting the spreading of the Mysteries.
Mathew 10:27 : that which I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light, and that which you hear at the ear, proclaim on the house-tops.
But Mathew 13:10 takes a quite different view
"Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand."
This is reinforced: Matthew 13:34
All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds in parables, and He did not speak to them without a parable.
St Paul has a similar issue:
1 Corinthians 3 1 And I, brethren, was not able to speak to you as to spiritual, but as to fleshly -- as to babes in Christ; 2 with milk I fed you, and not with meat, for ye were not yet able, but not even yet are ye now able, 3 for yet ye are fleshly, for where there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions
Masonry also only speaks in allegory. Are the brethren only fit for milk?
Is it time for change? Should the Mysteries be proclaimed from the rooftops?
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Post by LorrB on Jan 30, 2013 9:09:54 GMT 9.5
No proclaiming... would just get lost amidst all the other proclamations and probably get lumped in with the more outrageous of them.
I cannot discuss my favourite topics with most people I know.. they have no inclination for anything outside their 3D world.
Our Earth world has been likened to a school - Reception to Graduation. Do we waste time trying to teach Reception kids higher mathematics? Their minds are not developed fully and their experience is limited. The best we can do is to gently lead as mind and experiences are expanded.
Freemasonry instructs by degrees, and wisely so imo.
This forum was formed with the sole purpose of trying to introduce Brn around the world to some of the paths less travelled. Some paths I have not even travelled along myself even though I know they are there, others I have explored at length.
I love it when we come back to this meeting point and share tales of our adventures and discoveries.
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Post by Simon Magus on Jan 30, 2013 12:22:54 GMT 9.5
To communicate certain mysteries to those ill prepared, unappreciative or unworthy is downright irresponsible and is a sure sign of a fantasist at best or of a charlatan.
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Post by Mystagogue on Jan 30, 2013 12:26:27 GMT 9.5
Is it time for change? Should the Mysteries be proclaimed from the rooftops?
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Post by paul on Jan 30, 2013 12:29:45 GMT 9.5
To communicate certain mysteries.... is a sure sign of a fantasist at best or of a charlatan. Odd really
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Post by paul on Jan 30, 2013 12:31:38 GMT 9.5
The manner of communication is not for you to change. Do you follow the Jesus that uses parables rather than the Jesus who would proclaim from the rooftops?
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Post by Mystagogue on Jan 30, 2013 12:33:36 GMT 9.5
To communicate certain mysteries.... is a sure sign of a fantasist at best or of a charlatan. Odd really How so?
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Post by Mystagogue on Jan 30, 2013 12:36:44 GMT 9.5
Do you follow the Jesus that uses parables rather than the Jesus who would proclaim from the rooftops? I am obliged to communicate them in the same regular manner as I was taught.
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Post by Lao Tzu on Jan 30, 2013 13:31:05 GMT 9.5
"He who knows does not speak, He who speaks does not know."
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Post by paul on Jan 30, 2013 13:33:46 GMT 9.5
>I am obliged to communicate them in the same regular manner as I was taught.
You are indeed fortunate to have been taught the Mysteries. All the material lodges I know only deal in substitutes, allegories and symbols.
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Post by LorrB on Jan 30, 2013 13:53:21 GMT 9.5
Do you follow the Jesus that uses parables rather than the Jesus who would proclaim from the rooftops? I am obliged to communicate them in the same regular manner as I was taught. ... a very cautious man, but apparently not a free one. Doesn't Freemasonry encourage people to go to that special place and decide things for themselves?
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Post by Mystagogue on Jan 30, 2013 14:05:19 GMT 9.5
All the material lodges I know only deal in substitutes, allegories and symbols. Could it be that you received all to which you were receptive? For those with an eye to see, an ear to hear and a mind to judge, secrets may be revealed and portals may be opened. Odd that you received nothing yet you presume to know so much.
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Post by Cowan on Jan 30, 2013 14:12:15 GMT 9.5
Doesn't Freemasonry encourage people to go to that special place and decide things for themselves? Not with respect to things that are not theirs alone.
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Post by paul on Jan 30, 2013 14:53:47 GMT 9.5
>things that are not theirs alone.
I am not quite clear about how the quality of ownership is working here. Can you clarify?
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Post by Disingenuous on Jan 30, 2013 17:58:51 GMT 9.5
>things that are not theirs alone. I am not quite clear about how the quality of ownership is working here. Can you clarify? The meaning cannot be clearer.
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Post by paul on Jan 30, 2013 18:36:22 GMT 9.5
So who owns what?
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Post by stepnwolf on Jan 31, 2013 3:11:56 GMT 9.5
What a surprise to see this thread grow so quickly! Are we agreed that the mysteries we speak of cannot be declared from the rooftops? The real secrets are not words or tokens, nor are they substitutes for real secrets. They point to a profound experience the Craft encourages in us by its mystic art.
For example, the 5 PoF contain a mystery that is revealed only to those who experience it in the proper setting. Demonstrations do not convey the mystery, descriptions can only hint at it. Is there a thought form that encapsulates the 5 PoF, a form that can be modified by our thoughts? To broadcast the existence of that thought form may open it to ignorant modifications by the curious.
As LorrB might say, "just a thought."
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Post by paul on Jan 31, 2013 7:31:36 GMT 9.5
>Are we agreed that the mysteries we speak of cannot be declared from the rooftops?
I think we are agreed that Jesus was wrong on that one. Certainly there is no obvious evidence of his disciples doing such a thing.
So what is going on for Jesus to say: : that which I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light, and that which you hear at the ear, proclaim on the house-tops.
It is certainly a plain statement.
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Post by paul on Jan 31, 2013 7:33:56 GMT 9.5
>things that are not theirs alone. I am not quite clear about how the quality of ownership is working here. Can you clarify? The meaning cannot be clearer. Any progress on this one? I really do not understand ownership of the Mysteries.
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Post by LorrB on Jan 31, 2013 7:40:15 GMT 9.5
>Are we agreed that the mysteries we speak of cannot be declared from the rooftops? I think we are agreed that Jesus was wrong on that one. Certainly there is no obvious evidence of his disciples doing such a thing. So what is going on for Jesus to say: : that which I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light, and that which you hear at the ear, proclaim on the house-tops. It is certainly a plain statement. Is He talking about Inner and Outer experiences? Jesus also said "I and My Father are One" - How do we know which one was speaking. I would take it to mean that the Father speaks to all of us and what we learn from Him we should share around.
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