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Post by LorrB on Jan 31, 2013 7:42:01 GMT 9.5
Please note that I only use Him etc to aid the mind, I do not think of the Father as a person.
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Post by LorrB on Jan 31, 2013 8:11:18 GMT 9.5
The mysteries need to be veiled for the most part, because we have been programmed to reject the possibilities of our divinity link! Most church indoctrinated people think of occult as evil mislead worship of a false god or God! When in fact occult means to understand or study hidden knowledge! And the fact is the church based bible was provided to us by people with plethora's of hidden knowledge! Geoffrey Hodson wrote four volumes on The Hidden Wisdom in the Holy Bible. An interesting read. Hodson uncovers new meaning in the Bible in this revised edition of a theosophical classic. Hodson contends that many Bible stories are allegorical and were never meant to be taken literally. This first volume of a two-volume abridgement explains and illustrates how biblical symbols were used to encode esoteric truths and how the life of Christ can be viewed as an initiatory journey. books.google.com.au/books/about/Hidden_Wisdom_in_the_Holy_Bible.html?id=OKw2ap81jLoC&redir_esc=y
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Post by LorrB on Jan 31, 2013 8:19:55 GMT 9.5
A snippet or two from the book above... Recognizing that their discoveries belonged to humankind, the philosophers and scientists of former days knew that such knowledge placed in general hands, and particularly in those of disruptive elements in society, could be extremely dangerous. They therefore constructed the cryptic language in which the inspired scriptures and mythologies of the world have been written. Although based in general upon historical events, this narrative, as earlier suggested, has an under meaning and in some cases ever a sevenfold significance. While apparently found on fact, each story is rather an historical metaphor, having an inner purport and containing within itself layer upon layer of hidden knowledge.
Reasons for Secrecy
This method of writing is referred to as the sacred or mystery language and is said to have been invented and used by sages of old in order both to reveal to those who would be helped and to conceal from those who might be harmed a deep spiritual wisdom which can bestow theurgic powers upon its possessors. The necessity for this reservation becomes clear when the use to which modern scientific discoveries are put is observed. One example of the misuse of knowledge is the release, as the explosive agent in atomic bombs, of the energy derived from nuclear fission and fusion. I guess it is pretty clear that some discrimination is called for and we should be mindful of people who seek knowledge for selfish purposes. Hey reminds me of the masonic selection process.
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Post by paul on Jan 31, 2013 8:28:36 GMT 9.5
I would argue though that in the second half of the 20th century the lesser mysteries were increasingly published.
The sequence might be seen to start with the quality movement beginning in Japan in the 1950s. The keynote of the quality movement is: Drive out fear.
The next obvious milestone is the excellence movement of the 1970s - based on the inherent excellence of individual humans (spirit within).
Then many of the new age practices came into the public domain - e.g. teaching the sports by visualisation.
Was the proclaiming direction given by Jesus intended for the end of the age?
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Post by Perjurer on Jan 31, 2013 10:06:41 GMT 9.5
Traditions typically communicate their mysteries and privileges conditionally. The collective membership past and present retains ownership. In the case of Freemasonry any breach of those conditions shows one to be a willfully perjured individual void of all moral worth, etc. Fortunately most perjurers reveal themselves before they are entrusted with any genuine secrets. Subsequently they can spread only those substituted secrets with which they were tested, augmented with their own fantasies.
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Post by paul on Jan 31, 2013 10:36:49 GMT 9.5
... The collective membership past and present retains ownership.... So any particular entrance to knowledge of the Mysteries may be owned? This is similar to some religious/spiritual movements that explain that only they can provide salvation/enlightenment/redemption. On the other hand there are traditions that Nature is the teacher. Or do the teachings of Nature not overlap with groups such as Masonry?
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Post by Perjurer on Jan 31, 2013 12:43:04 GMT 9.5
So any particular entrance to knowledge of the Mysteries may be owned? I am not quite sure what you mean here. Knowledge or rubbish obtained without condition may be freely communicated for what it is worth, provided it is not misrepresented as being masonic. The strict conditions of communicating the secrets peculiar to Freemasonry are clearly stated in the ritual and you would have agreed to them.
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Post by stepnwolf on Jan 31, 2013 13:34:20 GMT 9.5
Do we have good reason to believe that this is an accurate account of Jesus' own words? Frankly it sounds as if a member of the Gnostic sect had a hand in recording the passage. The Gnostics were concerned with secrets and how they they were revealed to the select few.
There are several examples of tinkering with the Bible text to promote one sect or another in the developing Christian religion. In the course of time the winning party in Rome succeeded in removing most of them, but some still remain.
Curious that the Gk. Word for housetop or rooftop, δῶμα (doma), calls for a comment from a noted lexicographer who explains that in eastern lands the doma was used as an area for walking, meditation in prayer. Is the scholar suggesting that what we hear in the ear is fit for meditation and prayer?
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Post by paul on Jan 31, 2013 15:32:04 GMT 9.5
... The strict conditions of communicating the secrets peculiar to Freemasonry are clearly stated in the ritual and you would have agreed to them. At the risk of stating the obvious the secrets peculiar to Freemasonry are not the Mysteries - for two reasons, one is that mainstream Freemasonry has lost its genuine secrets(in 1717?), and the other is that the Mysteries are open to all who make the required inner progress.
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Post by paul on Jan 31, 2013 15:44:47 GMT 9.5
Do we have good reason to believe that this is an accurate account of Jesus' own words?.. An excellent question. There are several logical options: - the saying is a later addition - the saying is taken out of context e.g. had a time qualifier - the figure of Jesus is a construct from several players including James the Just - the saying has hidden meanings that have been lost in translation - the contrary sayings are later additions - the NT is an edited construct from multiple sources that was still being improved in the 16th century but remains internally inconsistent - other options that may not be well received. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_%28Fomenko%29Fomenko's work is huge in size and scope and well worth the effort. www.amazon.com/History-Fiction-Science-Chronology-No/dp/2913621058
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Post by Desaguliers on Jan 31, 2013 17:44:23 GMT 9.5
... The strict conditions of communicating the secrets peculiar to Freemasonry are clearly stated in the ritual and you would have agreed to them. At the risk of stating the obvious the secrets peculiar to Freemasonry are not the Mysteries - for two reasons, one is that mainstream Freemasonry has lost its genuine secrets(in 1717?), and the other is that the Mysteries are open to all who make the required inner progress. 1. If you honestly believe that then why try to tie your nonsense to Freemasonry? 2. Around 1717 the ritual was rudimentary - Just 2 degree and before that just one, which simply consisted of communicating the word. 3. In the 1720's the mysteries were introduced to Freemasonry. 4. You can fantasize all the inner progress you wish but clearly the initiatory traditions require as always at least the tongue of good report before the mysteries can be regularly communicated.
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Post by LorrB on Jan 31, 2013 19:07:38 GMT 9.5
At the risk of stating the obvious the secrets peculiar to Freemasonry are not the Mysteries - for two reasons, one is that mainstream Freemasonry has lost its genuine secrets(in 1717?), and the other is that the Mysteries are open to all who make the required inner progress. 1. If you honestly believe that then why try to tie your nonsense to Freemasonry? 2. Around 1717 the ritual was rudimentary - Just 2 degree and before that just one, which simply consisted of communicating the word. 3. In the 1720's the mysteries were introduced to Freemasonry. 4. You can fantasize all the inner progress you wish but clearly the initiatory traditions require as always at least the tongue of good report before the mysteries can be regularly communicated. If the Mysteries were introduced to Freemasonry then obviously Freemasonry does not own them. One who is a genuine Initiate might appear a little different to the uninitiated, because they are, The tongue of good report ,,, who honestly knows how they are truly regarded by others? Jesus spoke well of many souls ill-regarded by even his apostles. I have come to believe that there is a mysterious way in which we are required 'to speak for ourselves', and we can't fudge it.
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Post by Desaguliers on Jan 31, 2013 19:35:08 GMT 9.5
If the Mysteries were introduced to Freemasonry then obviously Freemasonry does not own them. Freemasonry does not have a monopoly on the mysteries. It received them in due form and holds them in trust as do other mystery traditions, communicating them only according to strict conditions.
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Post by Desaguliers on Jan 31, 2013 19:41:10 GMT 9.5
One who is a genuine Initiate might appear a little different to the uninitiated, because they are, One who is delusional may appear a little different. Genuine initiates do not ordinarily stand out.
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Post by Desaguliars on Jan 31, 2013 19:43:41 GMT 9.5
The tongue of good report ,,, who honestly knows how they are truly regarded by others? With regard to the mysteries you find out because and when you get to proceed.
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Post by stewart edwards on Jan 31, 2013 20:50:36 GMT 9.5
One who is a genuine Initiate might appear a little different to the uninitiated, because they are, One who is delusional may appear a little different. Genuine initiates do not ordinarily stand out. You mean like Leonardo da Vinci? Sorry Desaguliers had to laugh ;D. Serious question you seem to agree that Freemaosonry is but one of the guardians of the mysteries, which I also agree with. And by implication you surely must agree that some people can be genuine initaites outwith freemaosny. However do you consider all those who are initiated into masonry to be genuine initiates? Or simply in many cases good people who have joined a club? This is an important point as there is the view, held by some, that the clubbers are forcing the genuine initiates out in some parts of the masonic world. One very well travelled mason recently wrote to me telling me that in his opinion "the moneylenders have taken over the temple". Do you agree? Is that a good or a bad thing? Genuine initiates tend to keep quiet as otherwise they risk being ridiculed, mocked, and isolated. And for many they can achieve great things quietly working away in their day job using their knoweldge for the good. Others do have to speak out, for silence can be one of the greatest assets of darkness. Now Paul. A decade ago I did not understand much of what he ever wrote. But I listened to him, reflected on his words, thought really hard, tried to make some sort of sense out of what he wrote. And you know as time passed more and more of his words made sense, but it took a lot of work on my part. Mainly because the language Paul uses differs to mine and I need to square his words with the paradigms I use. For just as scientists do regularly I use theoretical paradigms to help me make sense of life - and they have been very effective. So, from my own perosnal experinece, Pauls efforts have been a keystone in springboarding my own personal growth since the millenium. back then I knew but I did not understand. Since then I have made some positive progress. So even being continents apart Pauls skills are very effective. Even if he does do my head in at times as I try to fathom out what he is talking about. Desaguliers, I would advise caution, respect Paul if you can, tolerate him if you can't, for he is a valuable asset in our world. Just as you are. Striving for truth is never easy, and you certainly dont seem to get it simply by joining a club and being awaded degrees by your mates after paying your membership fees. Also consider the point that the key guardains of the mysteries may not be all that happy with how the masonic world has handled them, as division, intolerance, money, egos, etc gained a grip. Just as they gave the mysteries to masonry they can talke them away again. Perhaps the mysteries will gain a resurgence amongst Royalty, or as has happened in the medieval past in the hands of ordinary citizens who hapen to be evolved sufficiently to handle them. You see Des. you can't anymore throw pearls before swine (I have never liked that phrase - which from my experience appears to be used mostly by people who wanabee), for the human race has evolved quite considerably over the past 4 millenia, and those who are genuine initiates will grasp as appropriate. And at this presise key stage of human evolution our world really needs the Pauls, just as it needs the Farages in the EU, and the Vatican confirming that alien life is not outwith the boundries of its techings (it did). (had to tease you sorry ;D)
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Post by LorrB on Feb 1, 2013 8:15:45 GMT 9.5
Great post Stewart! Thank you.
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Post by Desaguliers on Feb 1, 2013 10:05:59 GMT 9.5
One who is delusional may appear a little different. Genuine initiates do not ordinarily stand out. You mean like Leonardo da Vinci? Sorry Desaguliers had to laugh ;D. Serious question you seem to agree that Freemaosonry is but one of the guardians of the mysteries, which I also agree with. And by implication you surely must agree that some people can be genuine initaites outwith freemaosny. However do you consider all those who are initiated into masonry to be genuine initiates? Or simply in many cases good people who have joined a club? This is an important point as there is the view, held by some, that the clubbers are forcing the genuine initiates out in some parts of the masonic world. One very well travelled mason recently wrote to me telling me that in his opinion "the moneylenders have taken over the temple". Do you agree? Is that a good or a bad thing? Genuine initiates tend to keep quiet as otherwise they risk being ridiculed, mocked, and isolated. And for many they can achieve great things quietly working away in their day job using their knoweldge for the good. Others do have to speak out, for silence can be one of the greatest assets of darkness. Now Paul. A decade ago I did not understand much of what he ever wrote. But I listened to him, reflected on his words, thought really hard, tried to make some sort of sense out of what he wrote. And you know as time passed more and more of his words made sense, but it took a lot of work on my part. Mainly because the language Paul uses differs to mine and I need to square his words with the paradigms I use. For just as scientists do regularly I use theoretical paradigms to help me make sense of life - and they have been very effective. So, from my own perosnal experinece, Pauls efforts have been a keystone in springboarding my own personal growth since the millenium. back then I knew but I did not understand. Since then I have made some positive progress. So even being continents apart Pauls skills are very effective. Even if he does do my head in at times as I try to fathom out what he is talking about. Desaguliers, I would advise caution, respect Paul if you can, tolerate him if you can't, for he is a valuable asset in our world. Just as you are. Striving for truth is never easy, and you certainly dont seem to get it simply by joining a club and being awaded degrees by your mates after paying your membership fees. Also consider the point that the key guardains of the mysteries may not be all that happy with how the masonic world has handled them, as division, intolerance, money, egos, etc gained a grip. Just as they gave the mysteries to masonry they can talke them away again. Perhaps the mysteries will gain a resurgence amongst Royalty, or as has happened in the medieval past in the hands of ordinary citizens who hapen to be evolved sufficiently to handle them. You see Des. you can't anymore throw pearls before swine (I have never liked that phrase - which from my experience appears to be used mostly by people who wanabee), for the human race has evolved quite considerably over the past 4 millenia, and those who are genuine initiates will grasp as appropriate. And at this presise key stage of human evolution our world really needs the Pauls, just as it needs the Farages in the EU, and the Vatican confirming that alien life is not outwith the boundries of its techings (it did). (had to tease you sorry ;D) Da Vinci went to great lengths to present as normal, carefully concealing things which might be construed as heretical. He certainly did not go around babbling about riding unicorns or boasting about special powers and occult connections. Re normalcy see tamrin.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=features&thread=296&page=3#791Freemasonry does not have a monopoly on the mysteries. It received them in due form, impressed them with its own stamp and collectively holds them in trust as do other mystery traditions, communicating them only according to strict conditions. B.T.W. in these initiatory traditions there is no such thing as a self-made initiate. Admission and progress requires a duly formed lodge. Imagination, dreams, passing comments, mail order promises, etc. do not suffice. I am not going to play your game of who is or is not a genuine initiate. Where someone has been regularly initiated, is deemed proficient and persists faithfully but for now does little more than make-up the numbers for subsequent initiations, it is not for me or anyone to question their genuineness, let alone someone who is not even an initiate. When an initiate demonstrates readiness to proceed, avenues open. As a further B.T.W., the key guardians of the mysteries are the initiates themselves. We are isolated in a vast and impersonal universe and if we want compassion, justice, mercy and grace, don't look for otherworldly guardians, it is up to each of us to manifest those qualities.
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Post by LorrB on Feb 1, 2013 12:29:41 GMT 9.5
.. if we want compassion, justice, mercy and grace.... it is up to each of us to manifest those qualities Couldn't agree more.
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Post by Truth on Feb 1, 2013 12:43:13 GMT 9.5
It is also up to each of us to manifest truth.
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