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Post by paul on Feb 22, 2012 8:13:08 GMT 9.5
Apep, the physical, is leading an army of demons. the non-physical? Firstly we may consider that the text I quoted was written perhaps 5000 or more years after the events, and without much technical understanding. Nevertheless, it is quite possible for a demonic intelligence to dominate a human, or other being - in the same way as it is possible a soul (manasaputra) to take over a human. In the first instance it may be called possession, and in the second, enlightenment. books.google.com.au/books?id=tgEM1XiI74kC&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=manasaputra&source=bl&ots=2cft-ACQ7S&sig=MLCo52CLQ1v7NovdIfw7mxM5-mo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8xtET_jcLKKUiAeQyrjNBA&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=manasaputra&f=falseIn my experience of dark humans they invariably have a large dark sponsor. It is reasonable to say that those humans, when manifesting darkness, are part of a malevolent force. Physical entities usually have non-physical levels and those levels may easily interact with entities without physical bodies. Astral vampirism comes to mind. In my interaction with dark entities inhabiting humans they are invariably dominated (oppressed) by a larger entity whose bidding they do. Can humans who are trapped in the astral after death be captured and used for dark purposes? It is certainly feasible.
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Post by LorrB on Feb 22, 2012 8:50:52 GMT 9.5
I guess the Living Dead in Voodoo is an example of someone preying on the dead. Zombies and all that. Grimaces... scary stuff.. one can see why Wisdom and Strength are called for as we expand our awareness. As I reported previously I was attacked by something I could not see ... terrifying stuff.
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Post by paul on Feb 22, 2012 9:13:24 GMT 9.5
..I was attacked by something I could not see ... terrifying stuff. Who then is the King of Terrors?
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Post by LorrB on Feb 22, 2012 12:17:36 GMT 9.5
Fear of the unknown? Who do you nominate?
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Post by paul on Feb 22, 2012 12:23:37 GMT 9.5
I don't think the fear of the unknown eliminates all the descendents and appalls the people of the west.
I think there must have been a physical manifestation for it to be appalling. I wonder if there is some connection with the traditional account of killing all the first born in Egypt. That would have been appalling and would have gone a fair way to eliminating descendents.
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Post by LorrB on Feb 22, 2012 14:00:24 GMT 9.5
Wasn't that a Pharaoh? He's dust already. Anyway, in the Masonic sense the king of terrors is more down to Earth Descendants are not mentioned. Just that when we know better we will not be afraid any more.
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Post by paul on Feb 22, 2012 14:19:38 GMT 9.5
Exodus 12:
1 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses and unto Aaron, in the land of Egypt, saying,.........and I have passed over through the land of Egypt during this night, and have smitten every first-born in the land of Egypt, from man even unto beast, and on all the gods of Egypt I do judgments; I am Jehovah. ,
I note here that Jehovah passes judgement on the gods of Egypt.
I doubt that Jehovah is the King of Terrors, although He certainly spilt a lot of blood.
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Post by LorrB on Feb 23, 2012 10:20:04 GMT 9.5
NOT my favourite 'god', I have to say. Wotif... the 'people' in the bible are not really 'people'? The biblical text explains the name Mošeh משה as a derivation of the root mšh משה "to draw", in Exodus 2:10:
"[...] she called his name Moses (משה): and she said, Because I drew him (משיתהו) out of the water." (KJV).[8]
The name is thus suggested to relate to drawing out in a passive sense, "the one who was drawn out". Those who depart from this tradition derive the name from the same root but in an active sense, "he who draws out", in the sense of "saviour, deliverer".[9] The form of the name as recorded in the Masoretic text is indeed the expected form of the Biblical Hebrew active participle.[10] Josephus argued for an Egyptian etymology, and some scholarly suggestions have followed this in deriving the name from Coptic terms mo "water" and `uses "save, deliver", suggesting a meaning "saved from the water".[11]
Another suggestion has connected the name with the Egyptian ms, as found in Tuth-mose and Ra-messes, meaning "born" or "child".[8][12] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MosesWe know that the creation story makes reference to the division of the waters (plural)... the water of the earth and the water of the heavens... water is not always water
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Post by LorrB on Feb 23, 2012 10:30:35 GMT 9.5
I could read the whole Moses story as relating the journey of Spirit into Consciousness via the Soul. Moses - soul, could only see 'land' from the high place, it is left to Aaron (consciousness) to go into the promised land.
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Post by sekhmet on Feb 23, 2012 12:41:28 GMT 9.5
So standing (trampling?) on serpent(s) is an important part of being a god. Is that what is referred to by trampling the king of terrors? Don't forget that Michael the Archangel is also depicted as standing on the devil/a serpent/dragon. In "The Secret Teachings Of All Ages" Hermes Trismagistus has his foot on the head of Typhon. In occult teachings the aspirant is instructed to subjugate the infernal Powers so that they becomes a help and not a hindrance to the Work as in the rite of Abra-melin. The implication of the one standing on the other suggests that the power in question has been "conquered" . In the legend of the "Three Steps of Vishnu", the great demon Bali offers his head to the celestial Vishnu (incarnated as Vamana the dwarf)as a place to take his "third step", and gains tremendous spiritual merit thereby, because to "receive the Lord's foot on one's head is supremely auspicious". Bali is pushed down to the underworld-but receives the boon from Vishnu that for relinquishing his earthly kingdom to Vishnu without a qualm or hesitation, he, Bali, would reign in Svarga (heaven) as "Indra" during the next Epoch.
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Post by paul on Feb 23, 2012 13:23:37 GMT 9.5
The question in my mind is: Were there related physical events long ago on Earth and in the Heavens that are today preserved in the symbolic form of trampling on a serpent and the stories of war in the Heavens?
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Post by stewartedwards on Feb 23, 2012 19:58:49 GMT 9.5
In occult teachings the aspirant is instructed to subjugate the infernal Powers so that they becomes a help and not a hindrance to the Work This is actually quite tricky work. Now bearing in mind I did this without occult teachings, simply bumbling and stumbling my way following my heart, my perspective may be a bit skewed, but this takes enormous amounts of courage and willpower. But it does empower and enable, and in time does help you appreciate the importance of balance over control. Ah but what to do when it is conquered? Then it gets interesting, for you have to learn balance, and that can seem a bit like backsliding, when you are actually moving forwards. If you simply stopped at the conquering stage you could end up becoming what you once despised. This is played out in global events all the time. You can see the various stages at work in the life cycles of various nations. What matters, conceptually, at this moment in time, is more akin to the serpent mounting the head of Pharaoh, than the serpent being trampled on. If you have told me a dozen years ago that esoterics could be so exciting I would have laughed at you, in fact a dozen years ago I probably did not know what esoterics was. Now I wonder in the beauty of it all, in individuals, in organisations, and in nations. Absolutely fascinating.
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Post by stewartedwards on Feb 23, 2012 21:15:45 GMT 9.5
The question in my mind is: Were there related physical events long ago on Earth and in the Heavens that are today preserved in the symbolic form of trampling on a serpent and the stories of war in the Heavens? Quite possibly Paul. However the past is the past and the present is the present. Now it would be foolish to ignore the past, especially if the descendands of ancient bad guys could return, and indeed perhaps they did half a century ago.
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Post by Henka on Feb 23, 2012 22:54:34 GMT 9.5
Wotif... the 'people' in the bible are not really 'people'? Ah, now you're getting it!
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Post by paul on Feb 24, 2012 5:57:54 GMT 9.5
...especially if the descendants of ancient bad guys could return... Some of those guys were regarded as immortal gods. Perhaps they are still around. Indeed a couple of years ago, a friend and I were regarding a rather agitated North Sea and ran into some Nordic gods who said: You think you can run the planet without us! That comment might resolve the theological difficulty that arises from the gods often having less than desirable morality.
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Post by stewart edwards on Feb 24, 2012 6:44:57 GMT 9.5
Paul Ancient Gods I can handle - ask them. They are wise enough to understand that it is in their interest for Maat to return. Its us humans who have to learn to grow up and leave puberty.
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Post by LorrB on Feb 24, 2012 8:02:34 GMT 9.5
Wotif... the 'people' in the bible are not really 'people'? Ah, now you're getting it! You don't read all threads do you henka ;D 'Had it' for years. You might enjoy Geoffrey Hodson's 4 books - Hidden Wisdom in the Holy Bible (Geoffrey Hodson (12 March 1886 in Lincolnshire – 23 January 1983 in Auckland, New Zealand) was an occultist, Theosophist, mystic, Liberal Catholic priest, philosopher and esotericist, and a leading light for over 70 years in the Theosophical Society. He was also a high ranking Freemason). www.abebooks.com/book-search/author/geoffrey-hodson/
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Post by paul on Feb 24, 2012 8:09:14 GMT 9.5
So we have the usual options:
- Old Testament literally true - OT literal but edited and rewritten for political and theological reasons - OT largely theological and symbolic.
There is yet another option:
- OT misplaced in time and space hence the extreme lack of archeological evidence.
There are various accounts that relocate the OT either in time or space.
Thus there are three factors to consider, all of which may be present in varying degrees in each biblical episode.
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Post by LorrB on Feb 24, 2012 8:12:53 GMT 9.5
Ah but what to do when it is conquered? Then it gets interesting, for you have to learn balance, and that can seem a bit like backsliding, when you are actually moving forwards. If you simply stopped at the conquering stage you could end up becoming what you once despised. This is played out in global events all the time. You can see the various stages at work in the life cycles of various nations. What matters, conceptually, at this moment in time, is more akin to the serpent mounting the head of Pharaoh, than the serpent being trampled on. If you have told me a dozen years ago that esoterics could be so exciting I would have laughed at you, in fact a dozen years ago I probably did not know what esoterics was. Now I wonder in the beauty of it all, in individuals, in organisations, and in nations. Absolutely fascinating. Ain't it the truth - If you simply stopped at the conquering stage you could end up becoming what you once despised. How often do we see that in life, and ourselves at times. Ignorant people labelling others as ignorant. Fighting fire with fire. Killing killers.
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Post by sekhmet on Feb 25, 2012 13:39:37 GMT 9.5
Interestingly enough, I only just a day ago acquired a copy of Crowley's "Magick in Theory and Practice"(at a remarkably cheap price, I might add), and "just happened' to open the book at random and my eyes picked out a phrase on the page: "...The King of Terrors is, of course, Death Himself..."
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