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Post by LorrB on Apr 11, 2011 14:40:00 GMT 9.5
Decided to give this subject its own thread. (Paul and I have been discussing it elsewhere) Just found this from Alvin Boyd Kuhn...
The four "rivers" must be dealt with briefly. The Bible story has left us hopelessly bereft of comprehension of the meaning of these four streams. But again ancient numerological science comes to our aid. Four is the universal archaic number for the physical frame of the created world. It is the number of foundations, bases, pedestals; of matter which supports what spirit creates. Hence the Egyptians gave their great pyramids a four-sided base, the three-sided upper faces representing the spiritual triad of mind, soul, spirit, resting on a four-square material base - mind upheld by body.
The Tetragrammaton or four-vowelled Logoic Word, alphabetized in the Hebrew by J-H-V-H (from which "Jehovah"), depicts the philosophical hidden meaning of the number four. Life not only deploys through the triad to complete a cycle of manifestation, but each cycle of growth deposits a seed from which will spring the renewal of its next generation. Each cycle becomes the parent of the next. So, to depict numerically the formative and continuing life of Nature, the three phases necessary to bring a manifestation to light are completed by a fourth, the number of physical stability and continuity. In symbolism "J" is the Father, "H" the Mother, "V" (going down into matter and returning) is the Son; and the second "H", representing the infinite life renewal contained always in the bosom of the Mother, completes the enduring base. The four "rivers" in Genesis, Pison, Gihon, Hiddekel and Euphrates, are certainly not geographical streams. For the garden of Eden was not on earth! It was a condition or "locale" of higher celestial being that to us would lie far above earthly consciousness.
Again, since four is the structural base of life, man embodies in his constitution the four basic elements, the amalgamation of which in his evolution makes him the "man" he is. The ancients named these four elements "fire," "air", "water" and "earth". Each stands for and in a sense is one of his four distinct aspects of being. Earth represents his material body, water his emotional body (of sub-atomic or etheric "matter"), air his mental body (of still more sublimated "matter"), and fire his spiritual core of life, his immortal soul. The Bible is not without this fourfold symbolism, for in Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation (even in St. Paul) there are given the zodiacal signs of the "gods of the four quarters", in the eagle, lion, bull and man, which are equated with the four "corners", the two solstices and two equinoxes of the zodiac. In Egypt the "four guardians of the world" were by name Amsta, Hapi, Tuamutef and Kabhsenuf, the man, ape, jackal and hawk respectively. What they represent is ever the constitution of both
www.thechristmyth.com/excerptABKuhn.htm
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Post by paul on Apr 11, 2011 14:45:50 GMT 9.5
Let me suggest that interpretation of symbolism is better based on direct experience.
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Post by paul on Apr 11, 2011 14:49:49 GMT 9.5
This is an entry to the nature of the 4 rivers of creation  |
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Post by LorrB on Apr 11, 2011 16:57:24 GMT 9.5
Agreed, nothing like personal experience. Th image above doesn't help me unravel this mystery, can you interpret it for me please?
All it made me think of was that the fabled Atlantis was a circular city with waterways between the circular divisions... I guess there must have been various inlets.
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Post by paul on Apr 11, 2011 18:35:37 GMT 9.5
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Post by Henka on Apr 12, 2011 4:51:51 GMT 9.5
All it made me think of was that the fabled Atlantis was a circular city with waterways between the circular divisions... I guess there must have been various inlets. Reminds me of insects. |
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Post by Henka on Apr 12, 2011 4:54:52 GMT 9.5
Okay, reading the wiki article it clearly states that the symbol is a New Age modification to an older, rectangular symbol that has nothing to do with the center of the galaxy. Epic fail. |
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Post by paul on Apr 12, 2011 5:49:47 GMT 9.5
So it fails logic! How then will to deal with illustrations by symbol? Perhaps we should learn to use the working tools in a Masonic sense. |
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Post by Henka on Apr 12, 2011 7:21:12 GMT 9.5
So it fails logic! How then will to deal with illustrations by symbol? Perhaps we should learn to use the working tools in a Masonic sense. It fails because it is made up New Age pap, not from a genuine indigenous tradition. The symbol it was taken from signifies the Milky Way, not the center of the galaxy. It was an attempt to conflate the original Mayan design with the Yin/Yang symbol. It may be useful, but I prefer actual, authentic symbols. |
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Post by paul on Apr 12, 2011 8:01:09 GMT 9.5
Once reincarnation is recognised, the concept of historically validated tradition is greatly weakened.
Masonic science however allows us to test the nature of symbols and their isomorphic properties regardless of their supposed provenance.
What then is a simple metaphysical experiment to test the proposition that the Hunab Ku is related to the galactic centre?
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Post by LorrB on Apr 12, 2011 8:02:50 GMT 9.5
Easy on the 'New Age pap' henka - even genuine indigenous traditions were the NAP of their time ;D
Mmnnn, but you have given me a good lead in to a subject which was prompted by a genuine indigenous tradition of an aboriginal tribe here in Australia, it is about the Elders. Tall people. Will start a thread on that when I have a bit more time.
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Post by paul on Apr 12, 2011 8:16:45 GMT 9.5
The symbol it was taken from signifies the Milky Way, not the center of the galaxy. Perhaps you would like to expand on the distinction between the Milky Way and the galaxy. |
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Post by LorrB on Apr 12, 2011 8:25:50 GMT 9.5
Masonic science however allows us to test the nature of symbols and their isomorphic properties regardless of their supposed provenance. What then is a simple metaphysical experiment to test the proposition that the Hunab Ku is related to the galactic centre? If symbols affect us in a similar manner, then the symbols are probably the result of an 'inner' thing (as in psyche or archetype) manifesting itself in the external world. If so, it would manifest itself in a similar manner to ancient peoples and new agers. With the Centre of the Galaxy clue, I could see what I have always suspected.... in the Black Hole one side and out the Big Bang of Light the other. Recycling big time. How to test that theory? You have to give me a clue, I had to check the dictionary re isomorphic  |
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Post by paul on Apr 12, 2011 8:47:33 GMT 9.5
Visualise the Milky Way then bring the Hunab Ku close to it. What happens?
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Post by Henka on Apr 12, 2011 10:10:33 GMT 9.5
The symbol it was taken from signifies the Milky Way, not the center of the galaxy. Perhaps you would like to expand on the distinction between the Milky Way and the galaxy. The spiral arm we can see in the night sky is not the center. |
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Post by Henka on Apr 12, 2011 11:42:58 GMT 9.5
Visualise the Milky Way then bring the Hunab Ku close to it. What happens? Nothing. |
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Post by paul on Apr 12, 2011 12:15:29 GMT 9.5
>Nothing.
I wonder whether there are preconditions for some experiments to be successful
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Post by LorrB on Apr 12, 2011 13:26:07 GMT 9.5
When I did the test I got the impression of the galaxy being the horizontal and the symbol fitting in as the vertical - the centres of both being the same. ?? Sooo .. I am guessing that the galaxy rather than being pancake shaped is rather an energetic sphere (an apple even ) |
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Post by paul on Apr 12, 2011 14:43:09 GMT 9.5
>impression of the galaxy being the horizontal and the symbol fitting in as the vertical
You are jumping ahead as that was the next experiment - changing the orientation of the Hunab Ku to see if it is significant.
But since you are so good: visualise your lodge open and try the Hunab Ku in the center of the pavement.
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Post by LorrB on Apr 12, 2011 15:16:28 GMT 9.5
I was rather surprised by the result of your experiment so I went in search for possible further clues.. how about these four .. whatever you want to call them?  Conclusive evidence of a black hole containing 300,000,000 solar masses
The colorful "zigzag" ..(above).. is not the work of a flamboyant artist, but the signature of a supermassive black hole in the center of galaxy M84, discovered by Hubble Space Telescope's Space Telescope Imaging Spectrograph (STIS), on May 12, 1997. The image on the left, taken with Hubble's Wide Field Planetary and Camera 2 shows the core of the galaxy where the suspected black hole dwells. The STIS data on the right shows the rotational motion of stars and gas along the slit. The change in wavelength records whether an object is moving toward or away from the observer. The larger the excursion from the centerline -- as seen as a green and yellow picture element along the center strip, the greater the rotational velocity. If no black hole were present, the line would be nearly vertical across the scan.
Instead, STIS's detector found the S-shape at the center of this scan, indicating a rapidly swirling disk of trapped material encircling the black hole. Along the S-shape from top to bottom, velocities skyrocket as seen in the rapid, dramatic swing to the left (blueshifted or approaching gas), then the region in the center simultaneously records the enormous speeds of the gas both approaching and receding for orbits in the immediate vicinity of the black hole, and then an equivalent swing from the right, back to the center line. STIS measures a velocity of 880,000 miles per hour (400 kilometers per second) within 26 light-years of the galaxy's center, where the black hole dwells. This motion allowed astronomers to calculate that the black hole contains at least 300 million solar masses.
Additional References
• Hubble Space Telescope (NASA-AURA)
• The Early Life of Stars Scientific American July 91
• Inconstant Cosmos Scientific American May 93
(I joked about the galaxy being likened to an apple so when I read " the S-shape from top to bottom" it really gave me a good laugh). |
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