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Post by Henka on Feb 14, 2012 9:19:06 GMT 9.5
You read a book. You have no real experience with Freemasonry. You are not a Master Mason. Many initiated Masons are not true and faithful brethren. Equally there are true and faithful brethren who have not been initiated in a lodge - hence the tradition of a GM making Mason on sight. In other words, you're going to let her babble on about how much she knows about something she has not been initiated into.
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Post by Henka on Feb 14, 2012 9:26:00 GMT 9.5
Today at 4:37pm, LorrB wrote: Interesting that a GM can make a Mason on sight ... I understand that a 'true' GM would have the sight to recognise [sic] 'a builder' when he sees one.. but I rather suspect that most GM's lack that special sense and therefore the event becomes a symbolic 'keys to the city' sort of affair.
Not the same thing, a "Mason made at sight" is a rare occurrence, the new Brother being instructed in the things he needs to know afterwards. This individual claims that, because she read a book (One that is full of speculation and hooey anyway) and got some mysterious, astral message, and that her ancestors were Masons, that she is now some sort of honorary Mason, and has the keys to the ancient mysteries of Freemasonry.
My ancestors were, also, Masons, my great Grand-Father having been a 33 Degree Scottish Rite Mason, but until I was initiated, passed and raised in a recognized lodge, in due and ancient form, I was not a Master Mason.
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Post by paul on Feb 14, 2012 9:47:13 GMT 9.5
In other words, you're going to let her babble on about how much she knows about something she has not been initiated into. Sekhmet has had some deep experiences outside orthodox Masonry and I value those. Each chooses, as best they can, their own path. Mao apparently said when asked whether the French Revolution was a success: It is too early to tell. Thus too it is with our chosen paths.
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Post by LorrB on Feb 14, 2012 9:49:15 GMT 9.5
I guess we are all building something Henka... sometimes we think we are one sort of craftsman when we are another. I am a woman and think I am a craftsman but others would see me as an outsider, merely because I am a woman and/or belong to an Order which originated in France.
Wouldn't it be interesting, if not scary, to get a glimpse of what we individuals are actually building, rather than what we think we are building.
How many think they are engaged in building castles and temples when in reality they are building prisons?
I'm not sure I am ready to see that far...
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Post by sekhmet on Feb 14, 2012 11:35:01 GMT 9.5
Many initiated Masons are not true and faithful brethren. Equally there are true and faithful brethren who have not been initiated in a lodge - hence the tradition of a GM making Mason on sight. In other words, you're going to let her babble on about how much she knows about something she has not been initiated into. Why am I not surprised to learn that you have missed the point of this "personal revelation" entirely? I am not requesting validation from anyone about anything. I am merely recounting a very curious personal experience with regards to Freemasonry, and all the result of having asked an invoked being a question...about the legend of the 36 Righteous Men. Who else other than Freemasons would care to hear about such an experience ? And , by this time I have surely shown that I do in fact know a very great deal about Freemasonry. I have been wanting to continue the discussion about the Intimate Secretary ritual from the Scottish Rite, in fact..
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Post by LorrB on Feb 14, 2012 11:49:02 GMT 9.5
I like hearing about your experiences... I am rather interested in the 36 Righteous Men... and am looking into it. Half of 72, which has kept me busy for a few years now. 72 and white wands..
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Post by A Mason on Feb 14, 2012 11:58:01 GMT 9.5
Why am I not surprised to learn that you have missed the point of this "personal revelation" entirely? Q. How do you know yourself to be a Mason? A. By the regularity of my initiation, repeated trials and approbations, and a willingness at all times to undergo an examination when properly called on. Group work is a part of any regular initiation and of masonic life itself.
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Post by AP Elkin on Feb 14, 2012 12:07:51 GMT 9.5
Describing Aboriginal Men of High Degree.
"His is a profession for which he has been duly prepared and trained. It is not a kink, though it is possible that sometimes a man may be misled into believing that he “was made” in some dream experience, but that alone will not accredit him."
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Post by sekhmet on Feb 14, 2012 12:14:21 GMT 9.5
Well hey, if I have established an ongoing relationship with the living dynamic of "the Temple" itself, then I think it's safe to say I am free to skip over the part where I have to "build it".
I ascribe the bulk of my "Freemasonic adventure" to my Qabalistic studies; having made the Qabalah part of my life automatically admits one to the 'adytum".
It is a fact that I have never actually been in an actual Freemasonic temple at any time.
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Post by paul on Feb 14, 2012 12:21:24 GMT 9.5
A Freemason's lodge extends from East to West and North to South and from the surface/centre of the Earth to the Heavens. (What does that mean in practice?)
It is therefore difficult for any human not to have entered a Freemason's lodge.
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Post by A Mason on Feb 14, 2012 12:33:24 GMT 9.5
A Freemason's lodge extends from East to West and North to South and from the surface/centre of the Earth to the Heavens. (What does that mean in practice?) It is therefore difficult for any human not to have entered a Freemason's lodge. Ergo a Cowan is a Mason.
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Post by paul on Feb 14, 2012 14:56:04 GMT 9.5
It is perhaps better to distinguish the inner aspects of Masonry from the external forms.
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Post by Hermes on Feb 14, 2012 16:59:42 GMT 9.5
It is perhaps better to distinguish the inner aspects of Masonry from the external forms. As above, etc.
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Post by sekhmet on Feb 15, 2012 6:32:17 GMT 9.5
I like hearing about your experiences... I am rather interested in the 36 Righteous Men... and am looking into it. Half of 72, which has kept me busy for a few years now. 72 and white wands.. It is true, though less well known, that there is much more to the 36 than just 36; they also have PARTNERS. In fact, the Shemhamphorash is closely connected to the 36 (x2).Interestingly, the Egyptians had 75 Names of God...72 plus the Supernal 3. And I see there are an increasing number of the brethren who have got their apron strings in a knot over things I have been saying here...best they go back and review what was actually said (as opposed to what they think was said) ....
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Post by paul on Feb 15, 2012 8:08:11 GMT 9.5
It is perhaps better to distinguish the inner aspects of Masonry from the external forms. As above, etc. I am afraid that the "below" does not apply to human institutions - being largely artificial. In the case of Masonry in its ritual and organisational forms, there is significant divergence from the pattern of the Temple in the Heavens.
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Post by sekhmet on Feb 15, 2012 13:24:47 GMT 9.5
It is an observable fact that the rituals have undergone changes, and this in the face of the injunction that the rituals not be tampered with" ; a ritual is sort of a mystery play; once you eliminate too much of the plot, it stops making sense. Thus the 'ancient agreements' has not been actively upheld some time; this did not matter for a time but now it does: humanity is thus rapidly divesting itself of 'righteousness" at a hideous rate; I mean, think about it: whole species of plants and animals have been wiped out so that humanity can have cheap burgers...
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Post by paul on Feb 15, 2012 13:44:48 GMT 9.5
I think there are several issues here:
- the original nature(s) of what is now seen as essentially Masonic in various cultures - the custodial history of western Masonry - the current value of western Masonry in terms of its original nature and purpose
Similarly for humanity.
I would not be too quick to discount the value of humanity. From a local perspective, a generation or two of depression may have a wonderful effect on communal life and values.
From a systemic perspective, the human experiment still has some way to go and humanity may well invoke cosmic assistance.
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Post by JT Desaguliers on Feb 15, 2012 17:23:06 GMT 9.5
It is an observable fact that the rituals have undergone changes, and this in the face of the injunction that the rituals not be tampered with" It is also an observable fact that the Masons among us were made in accordance with those changes.
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Post by paul on Feb 15, 2012 17:27:10 GMT 9.5
I am not sure being made a Mason is always what one would hope. Certainly many new brethren leave before their raising.
The issue perhaps is that ever since the London Masons of 1717 there has been little clarity on the purpose of Masonry. In the absence of clear purpose it was too easy to erode the ritual and lose contact with the genuine secrets.
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Post by JT Desaguliers on Feb 15, 2012 19:57:49 GMT 9.5
Before our trigradal system of the 1720s there was the rudimentary bigradal system described in the Early Masonic Catechisms and before that the monogradal system which essentially consisted of communicating a single word, which we have preserved.
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