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Post by LorrB on Nov 22, 2011 10:13:37 GMT 9.5
Maybe Henka would like to talk about patterns, and how those patterns came into being?
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Post by paul on Nov 22, 2011 10:52:15 GMT 9.5
it is likely life formed on multiple occasions and in several directions..... Even the earliest fossil life form is highly sophisticated.
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Post by mgc on Nov 22, 2011 11:48:54 GMT 9.5
did any1 ever find a fossilized amoeba?
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Post by paul on Nov 22, 2011 12:14:20 GMT 9.5
These are the guys that hold the key to the origin of life on Earth:
"The oldest known fossilized prokaryotes were laid down approximately 3.5 billion years ago, only about 1 billion years after the formation of the Earth's crust. Even today, prokaryotes are perhaps the most successful and abundant life-forms.... some have suggested that there is evidence on Mars of fossil or living prokaryotes.... Prokaryotes have diversified greatly throughout their long existence. The metabolism of prokaryotes is far more varied than that of eukaryotes.... This enables prokaryotes to thrive in harsh environments as cold as the snow surface of Antarctica, and as hot as undersea hydrothermal vents and land-based hot springs."
As I understand it, these entities appear from nowhere - able to survive in volcanic vents and without oxygen - thus well suited to the Earth of 3.5 billion years ago.
Fortunately some varieties of the prokaryotes produced oxygen as a waste product therefore preparing the Earth for life forms that required an oxygen atmosphere.
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Post by mgc on Nov 22, 2011 12:50:01 GMT 9.5
u could prove that by having 1 materialize under your microscope. im fairly sure some1 would have noticed if that happened.
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Post by LorrB on Nov 22, 2011 13:11:53 GMT 9.5
u could prove that by having 1 materialize under your microscope. im fairly sure some1 would have noticed if that happened. u prove that it can't with your microscope check out what scientists have to say about this. Lightening appears out of 'nowhere' - but we've figured out why and how.
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Post by brandt on Nov 22, 2011 13:27:07 GMT 9.5
Who has figured out "why and how?"
MGC, is right on this. The evidence is overwhelmingly in support of Evolution while the evidence in support of the intelligent designism is not even something that can be construed as evidence.
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Post by paul on Nov 22, 2011 13:46:59 GMT 9.5
u could prove that by having 1 materialize under your microscope. im fairly sure some1 would have noticed if that happened. I was of course referring to the supposed fossil sequence - where the prokaryotes are the start of the sequence - appearing as a complex entity with adaptation for volcanic environs with no pre-existing primitives. As for materialising under the microscope, it may be of interest to consider the reports of bions wilhelmreichtrust.org/laboratory_manual_for_bion_experiments.html
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Post by brandt on Nov 22, 2011 14:12:06 GMT 9.5
Bursts happen in the record. That is known. The reasons for the bursts are not deities or aliens. They tend to surround circumstances that encourage smaller numbers of trait collections to explode and out compete their conspecifics and to exploit the environment.
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Post by paul on Nov 22, 2011 14:38:57 GMT 9.5
This graphic demonstrated the problem at a macro level It seems to indicate that increasing complexity is only possible for short periods
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Post by LorrB on Nov 22, 2011 14:43:20 GMT 9.5
Bursts happen in the record. That is known. The reasons for the bursts are not deities or aliens. ..prove it. (You ask other to prove their statements Scientists are still trying to figure out the Big Bang. They know it happened they don't know how or why. Just sayin! (I'm kinda figuring it might be the other side of a black hole ... just a hunch. Did you know they are just now discovering that there there might be mini black holes in abundance, which might explain why some parts of the atom pop into and out existance continually)
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Post by brandt on Nov 22, 2011 14:47:44 GMT 9.5
Black Holes are leaps of faith.
LorrB. I think that you would enjoy a book called Wholeness and Implicate Order. It is a fascinating text. Not only do I think that you would enjoy it, I think that you would benefit from it. I highly recommend it. I consider it one of the books that formative for me.
On the bursts. When an environment of evolutionary adaptedness gets more strict (harsher) it becomes harder to survive. Those genes that make it have the opportunity to proliferate with far more room to spread.
Just sayin'
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Post by brandt on Nov 22, 2011 14:48:19 GMT 9.5
Would it not be more appropriate to discuss the Big Bang Theory in its own thread?
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Post by mgc on Nov 22, 2011 16:02:52 GMT 9.5
if it adapted to volcanic environments, there must be a form it adapted from. perhaps it didnt adapt but rather needed a volcanic environment to form in?
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Post by brandt on Nov 22, 2011 16:29:54 GMT 9.5
Or those that couldn't survive in that environment are just not around (at the time) to write history, genetic history that is.
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Post by paul on Nov 22, 2011 17:51:05 GMT 9.5
Or those that couldn't survive in that environment are just not around (at the time) to write history, genetic history that is. So how did the species that survived a hotter but cooling environment then fail when there continue today many niche environments that reproduce the general environment of that time? And postulating that species that survived in fossils (and until the present day) evolved from species that did not survive in fossils seems to me to present an hypothesis for which there is no evidence.
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Post by brandt on Nov 22, 2011 23:21:47 GMT 9.5
Too narrow a gene pool perhaps? I haven't studied them. In any case it takes more than environmental conditions. Life is harsh, brutish, and short.
I am not sure how much evidence it would ever take to convince you. You don't seem willing to accept any evidence produced. Evolution is the only theory that we have that explains the observed phenomena. Others have offered ideas that did not pass muster. There could come a time in which the Theory of Evolution is overturned. That would be an exciting day.
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Post by paul on Nov 23, 2011 5:35:28 GMT 9.5
.... Evolution is the only theory that we have that explains the observed phenomena.... Does evolution explain the diagram at post 29?
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Post by mgc on Nov 23, 2011 7:02:23 GMT 9.5
if u have another graph with gasses in the atmosphere, global temp and other life altering conditions, i might be able to see some links.
why does a system change figuratively overnight? some threshold was reached? an environment altering event happened? e.t. came by and thought itd be wise to play with the local lifeforms? god did it?
clearly more data is required.
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Post by paul on Nov 23, 2011 7:58:58 GMT 9.5
.. if it adapted to volcanic environments, there must be a form it adapted from.... That is the issue. The first life form we see is already genetically highly sophisticated, able to withstand extreme environments and fortuitously, over a couple of billion years, generates an oxygen atmosphere for later lifeforms. Just luck I guess.
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