|
Post by azaziel on Nov 11, 2011 19:16:03 GMT 9.5
I think that there are a combination of different elements involved in the OB, including the alchemical symbols of the various penalties as well as some social/moral promises. As with anything in masonry, some of the statements come from a variety of sources (personal, spiritual, social, moral, etc.), and if one takes the time to delve into some of the historical documents such as the Regius poem and Schaw Statutes, there are some traditional elements that are quite old. Why some of these things are still there is probably due to the "no innovations" landmark, although certainly various bodies always change some of them, such as the rewriting/elimination of the penalties.
But since there are moral elements, I think that it does transcend simple the "rules" of the Grand Lodge. When you say that "I promise" such-and-such and seal it with a kiss, it's a fairly serious undertaking, and if you can't keep your word, it has implications regarding your character. However, there are obviously many things in there that do have to do with the "rules" of a society. It's a fascinating mixture.
btw, if you agree to it, it becomes personal and you own it. That GLs can change the rules of the game in mid-stream when you have promised the opposite...we also promise to obey their rules. Masonry is so old that there are bound to be inconsistencies and conflicting aspects, and of course by now I've seen various brothers play the OB card to justify all sorts of things. Just today I read something written by a Brother I know regarding "hunting down" someone that is behind a certain website and reporting him to his GL. Funny how those compasses seem to work the opposite way, although IMO the spiritual damage of breaking that type of promise can be quite devastating, depending on the individual. Others give no thought at breaking their OBs. Sadly, I've quickly learned that the word of a Mason frequently has no weight or value.
A good friend once shared with me that the difference between Masonic and Martinist obligations, is that the Masonic obligation is a promise to your brothers that you make in front of G-d, while the Martinist OB is a promise to G-d that you make in front of your Brothers.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Nov 11, 2011 19:33:46 GMT 9.5
I am interested in the alchemical symbols of the penalties. Are you able to give an outline - without describing the penalties.
The Ob can in practice generate an energy field that may last for decades - or until the brother has ascended far enough up Jacob's ladder to discharge the denser mental substances in which the ob exists.
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Nov 14, 2011 7:38:32 GMT 9.5
there are some traditional elements that are quite old. Why some of these things are still there is probably due to the "no innovations" landmark, although certainly various bodies always change some of them, such as the rewriting/elimination of the penalties. I have a few problems with the Masonic Obligation which I have discussed with other masons over the years... Foremost for me is that I found myself in a position in which it is difficult to retreat from, obligating myself to things which I had no foreknowledge of, and at the time (because of the repetitive nature of the process) to things which didn't make much sense at the time. Traditional element and penalties... Alchemy was punishable by death in Newton's Day - when the UGLE was formed.. hence the need for secrecy. In our society there is little need for such secrecy, although in some other societies the need for secrecy is still of utmost importance. Re the penalties... in my lodge we recognise the esoteric significance of them. The fact that penalties still remain in the obligation indicates to me that one must use their common sense when deciding which part of the obligation is to be taken literally. Clearly no man in our society would undertake to impose the penalties, so they are symbolical. Maybe other parts of that same obligation are also symbolical. It is easy to see how Brn can become confused by such things. When in doubt "To thine own Self be true", imo. As God is the Centre of his Universe ...
|
|
|
Post by paul on Nov 14, 2011 7:55:33 GMT 9.5
Not actually the UGLE in Newton's time. Perhaps the Grand Lodge at York or perhaps the members of the Royal Society had a secret organisation.
Commonly today, the obligation for the candidate is a combination of commitment to the GAOTU, the local Grand Lodge and to the lodge of initiation.
Thus the candidate must agree to all three when technically only the first is required to be a Mason.
In commercial trade this might well be considered a restrictive practice (you can only buy this car if you get the servicing done by that dealer)
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Nov 14, 2011 8:01:35 GMT 9.5
We have received such threats against the Admin here, and it is disappointing. When it first happened I did do some serious soul searching. The result of that search was a bit of a relevation to myself, as it made me realise just how much I value the FREE part in FREEmasonry, and how much I am willing to sacrifice to see that freedom of thought and choice to serve remain.
We might not all arrive at the same conclusions but it is in the sharing of ideas and thoughts that we arrive at an understanding. And when we understand someone than we can begin to love them as brothers/sisters.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Nov 14, 2011 8:09:27 GMT 9.5
Are the inquisitors of old now reborn and still carrying out their mission of seeking out heretics?
heretic (n.) ...... from Church L. haereticus, from Gk. hairetikos "able to choose,"
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Nov 14, 2011 8:37:26 GMT 9.5
It is well known that I believe reincarnation is part of the Plan. Inquisitors? Old habits die hard, so they say. Imagine the lodge itself as a TB, lets see if 'it fits' The SW says, he closes the lodge after seeing that every Bro has had his due, the JW reminds us of 'regular' meetings. The Overseers keep rejecting until we reshape ourselves. The PS in R.Arch will give us a hand in the right direction. Ark Mariners, the seed atom of our lifes thought, words, deeds, are locked up safely until we reach 'land' again. Sufiism has a lot to lots to say on this... interesting reading. Rose Croix .. lots of comings and goings there Freemasonry itself is a progressive craft... light side and dark side, night and day, life and death, going round in circles
|
|
|
Post by azaziel on Nov 16, 2011 18:37:05 GMT 9.5
It is well known that I believe reincarnation is part of the Plan. Inquisitors? Old habits die hard, so they say. Imagine the lodge itself as a TB, lets see if 'it fits' The SW says, he closes the lodge after seeing that every Bro has had his due, the JW reminds us of 'regular' meetings. The Overseers keep rejecting until we reshape ourselves. The PS in R.Arch will give us a hand in the right direction. Ark Mariners, the seed atom of our lifes thought, words, deeds, are locked up safely until we reach 'land' again. Sufiism has a lot to lots to say on this... interesting reading. Rose Croix .. lots of comings and goings there Freemasonry itself is a progressive craft... light side and dark side, night and day, life and death, going round in circles Yes, going around in circles, did you ever consider that " Circle" is a symbol, and as such could be telling us something
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Nov 17, 2011 7:15:46 GMT 9.5
I love the symbol of the Circle, and the Point within. You will find I reference it quite a bit on the various threads.
Can you share with us some of your thoughts on the symbolism of the Circle? My list is sooo long, and still growing.
|
|
|
Post by azaziel on Nov 17, 2011 8:17:40 GMT 9.5
I love the symbol of the Circle, and the Point within. You will find I reference it quite a bit on the various threads. Can you share with us some of your thoughts on the symbolism of the Circle? My list is sooo long, and still growing. That it leads us to ( my) conclusion that SKI (wisdom) and HKT ( strength)re created Freemasonry ( Beauty), among other things
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Nov 17, 2011 9:13:14 GMT 9.5
I like that.
And Freemasonry, when understood and practiced by masons, makes them beautiful, strong and wise (the other half of the circle)?
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Nov 17, 2011 9:20:26 GMT 9.5
one of my understandings...
The circle represents spiritual life, whereas the square represents physical life.. we are all made of Air, Earth, Fire and Water.
Getting back to the topic of this thread, I guess when it comes to Obligations, I would have to take into account whether the specific situation which might prove a challenge comes from the Square or the Circle.
|
|
|
Post by brandt on Nov 17, 2011 12:05:20 GMT 9.5
I would not worry about the inquisitors or some grand lodge. They don't have the courage of their convictions. My obligation extends as far as my moral compass will take me, just as it is with any person no matter what hoodoo others want to claim.
Real morality does not come from commands. It comes from an understanding of one's duty. "Duty" is not something that is easily understood by those that feel that things are owed to them because of their existence or fancy apron.
Fraternally, Brandt
|
|
|
Post by paul on Nov 17, 2011 12:07:05 GMT 9.5
Welcome Brandt
|
|
|
Post by brandt on Nov 17, 2011 12:08:08 GMT 9.5
Thank you Brother.
|
|
|
Post by chingus on Nov 17, 2011 17:16:23 GMT 9.5
I would not worry about the inquisitors or some grand lodge. They don't have the courage of their convictions. My obligation extends as far as my moral compass will take me, just as it is with any person no matter what hoodoo others want to claim. Real morality does not come from commands. It comes from an understanding of one's duty. "Duty" is not something that is easily understood by those that feel that things are owed to them because of their existence or fancy apron. Fraternally, Brandt What Brandt said.
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Nov 18, 2011 7:35:37 GMT 9.5
Real morality does not come from commands. It comes from an understanding of one's duty. "Duty" is not something that is easily understood by those that feel that things are owed to them because of their existence or fancy apron. Understanding ... I love that word. Knowledge -> Understanding -> Wisdom In brandt's example, if we understand that the 'fancy apron' Bro is acting out of ignorance (his lack of understanding) then wouldn't it be our duty to help him to gain an understanding? Helping a Bro in need? Never underestimate the value of a quiet word and the calm conversation. A dear friend taught me that. Granted, gifts are sometimes not appreciated
|
|
|
Post by brandt on Nov 18, 2011 10:42:19 GMT 9.5
Good gifts are rarely appreciated or used. In many cases they are rejected.
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Nov 18, 2011 11:10:12 GMT 9.5
Food for thought from a book called Ponder on ThisOnly he who is free can control and utilise those who are prisoners. The sign of a real Master (whether in the Chair or not)? I thought this might be relevent to the conversation.
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Nov 18, 2011 11:22:28 GMT 9.5
Good gifts are rarely appreciated or used. In many cases they are rejected. This might be why.. Those who see a vision that is withheld from those lacking the necessary equipment for its apprehension, are regarded as fanciful, and unreliable. When many see the vision, its possibility is admitted, but when humanity itself has the awakened and open eye, the vision is not longer emphasised, but in fact it stated and a law enunciated. Such has been the history of the past and such will be the process in the future. Remember the stone rejected by the builder .. Remember Steve Jobs instruction "stay foolish" .. Persist. Failure never prevents success. Difficulties develp the strength of the soul. The secret of success is ever to stand steady and to be impersonal.
|
|