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Post by LorrB on Apr 23, 2013 17:44:28 GMT 9.5
I am currently interested in the origins of the 18th degree - Rose Croix. It is overtly a Christian degree but very little of the symbolism appears in the New Testament and none of the ritual actions. When I exclude the Christian interpretations I have a ruler from the heavens who descends to a group of princes (relatives) with two primary princes that seem to be militant (generals). This could be a reflection of Sumerian texts where the heavenly ruler (An/Anu/On) descends to sort out the conflict between Enlil (Baal/Bul) and Enki (Ea). The conflict is difficult to sort out as both wish to inherit the celestial crown and the heavenly sovereign descends and ascends several times in the negotiations. The princes (sons of The Most High) are suffering early deaths on Earth (noxious Sun?) and need special food and drink (bread of life and water of life) to maintain their immortality. This sounds more akin to Royal Arch to me. But - where would the Veils fit in? For me they relate to what you went through to get where you are.
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Post by stewartedwards on Apr 24, 2013 7:04:06 GMT 9.5
Stewart Early in my studies I was taught that messing with Kundalini is dangerous. I didn't listen. Ah, you see that is where my experience differs stepnwolf, for I never studied anything esoteric (shotokan karate aside). I just bumbled and stumbled upon it. I then found my way to esoteric texts and the masonic world which gave me confirmation of what I had found out by accident. I had no teachers, guides, anything beyond what you might call Divine inspiration. I followed my heart, questioned, reflected, thought, and so on. I do however realise that I might be the exception as opposed to the rule. From your words I can imagine your feelings. I guess that for me I was just lucky. Mind you so many things have happened to me that conventional wisdom might suggest dont happen that nowadays I just accept it. I will say this though Stepnwolf from your posts here you are clearly making sound progress, so one day you might be in for a pleasant suprise, or two. I can assure you when it happened to me I might have questioned my sanity, but fear did not enter the equation. And I have faced many fears so I do know that sensation. If anything I would call it positively empowering. One thing that I have learnt is that everything happens at the right time. So I would simply enjoy the journey stepnwolf. As a slight but not unrelated tangent, if the internet "noise" about the united nations coming clean this year about aliens/ufos (I am not holding my breath though due to vested interests) has even a modicum of truth to it (I tend to turn off when I read things on internet searches like "secret whistleblower"), you can expect a lot more people will feel their kundalini rise. The reason is to do with the precise moment in human evolution and such open disclosure, and events surrounding it, would turn the tap to "on" so to speak. Suppose that would mean I might have to relocate to New York!! Nah - there is nothing that could be done there that couldn't be done from Oxfordshire, England. Besides our economy could use the boost. Stepnwolf the single biggest key that I have found to all things esoteric is simply to.....shush now it is a big secret...pull your chair closer and listen carefully.........relax. Can't overstate it...relax....relax...relax. I can still feel the pain in my throat the first time, in Oxford when it happened. I was literally simply walking up a road.
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Post by paul on Apr 24, 2013 7:45:38 GMT 9.5
>I was literally simply walking up a road.
When I first knew (rather than believed) that I had a soul, I was walking along the road.
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Post by LorrB on Apr 24, 2013 9:38:05 GMT 9.5
Is that why they say walking is good for you ... Oh well, if I must ...
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Post by paul on May 8, 2013 12:28:37 GMT 9.5
I am currently interested in the origins of the 18th degree - Rose Croix. It is overtly a Christian degree but very little of the symbolism appears in the New Testament and none of the ritual actions. I am learning part of the ritual at present and in the space of a few lines what is found is described as: - the Lost Word - the name of he who is the Word - the Word of the New Law. This seems a bit of a jumble. If it is the word of the new law how could it have been lost for so long? If it is the name of a person, how was the name lost? There are other peculiarities too about inheritances that last longer (instead of eternally) and so many princes looking to inherit the one celestial crown. I wonder then if there are several threads to the ritual that are cobbled together for religious and political reasons.
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Post by LorrB on May 8, 2013 14:48:57 GMT 9.5
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Post by paul on May 9, 2013 10:53:05 GMT 9.5
I tend to think that RC is more Sumerian than Egyptian
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Post by paul on Oct 19, 2013 15:02:08 GMT 9.5
Here is a rather Masonic scene The god Ea sits in an appropriate chair with a fall of water on either side. On either side of him stands a deacon with a wand, and attached to the top appears to be a scroll, perhaps containing messages and commands. Above we have the Sun and the Moon which together with the Master make the 3 lesser lights. Notice how tall is Ea - the most high of those present. And over to the left we have someone with a sign recognised in a higher degree, now commonly known as the John sign. John the Baptist is a traditional patron of Masonry. So does the above Sumerian depiction give an early date for Masonic ritual? (Those interested in Leonardo might note the distortions in the depiction of John - from standing too close to the lens. And but for the large nose, John might be female)
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Post by LorrB on Oct 21, 2013 8:53:34 GMT 9.5
Four 'tassels', winding ascent, middle chamber/heart (reminds me of Richard, the Lion Heart). Zodiac (sky with all its luminaries). All there. Being winged, for me, means it is to do with things non physical. What is being depicted is outside the realms of physicality, aliens included. This image shows me the animal instinct being overcome (EA) by the heart (rose colour) minded physical entity (FC) who has his eye on the greater scheme of things.
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Post by LorrB on Oct 21, 2013 9:13:58 GMT 9.5
Re EA image above ...
How do we know it is not the Blake type artist of the time trying to convey abstract concepts to the peoples of the day?
(We have been told in the bible that there were giants in the Earth in those days ... so the large person might represent such).
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Post by paul on Oct 21, 2013 9:34:08 GMT 9.5
Re EA image above ... How do we know it is not the Blake type artist of the time trying to convey abstract concepts to the peoples of the day? (We have been told in the bible that there were giants in the Earth in those days ... so the large person might represent such). The word El (as in Elohim) comes from the Sumerian Ilu - meaning both "tall" and "god". Thus humans looked up to their Lord God and he or she looked down on them. The giants of the Old Testament were large e.g. Numbers 13:33 (Young's Literal Translation) and there we saw the Nephilim, sons of Anak, of the Nephilim; and we are in our own eyes as grasshoppers; and so we were in their eyes.' 1 Samuel 17: 4 And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.5 And he had an helmet of brass upon his head, and he was armed with a coat of mail; and the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of brass. 6 And he had greaves of brass upon his legs, and a target of brass between his shoulders. 7 And the staff of his spear was like a weaver's beam; and his spear's head weighed six hundred shekels of iron: and one bearing a shield went before him.
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Post by paul on Oct 21, 2013 9:35:32 GMT 9.5
This image shows me the animal instinct being overcome (EA) by the heart (rose colour) minded physical entity (FC) who has his eye on the greater scheme of things. Have you considered the context of the original and its mythology?
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Post by LorrB on Oct 21, 2013 11:38:21 GMT 9.5
I am confused enough -> The word El (as in Elohim) comes from the Sumerian Ilu - meaning both "tall" and "god". Thus humans looked up to their Lord God and her or she looked down on them. Her/She ? Elohim is plural isn't it, which would indicate gods 1 Samuel 28:13 (King James Version (KJV) 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
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Post by LorrB on Oct 21, 2013 11:40:58 GMT 9.5
If Freemasonry has anything to do with the Annunaki, Nephilim, Elohim, etc ... where does the "properly prepared' bit come in?
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Post by paul on Oct 21, 2013 13:04:29 GMT 9.5
>Her/She ? A typo - now corrected >Elohim is plural isn't it, which would indicate gods Technically it seems to be that Eloha is a female god, with the word given a male plural -im hence Elohim is translatable as goddess and gods. >13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. " about midnight I saw the sun brightly shine; I saw likewise the gods celestial and the gods infernal, before whom I presented myself and worshiped them." www.sacred-texts.com/cla/pr/pr09.htmThe presence of gods infernal (within the Earth) was well known in ancient times. For example Persephone was caught in the underworld when she ate pomegranate. These days the same sort of stories continue but more commonly as aliens in subterranean cities. This may however be a simplification of the actual situation "In excess of 200 underground cities containing a minimum of two levels have been discovered in the area between Kayseri and Nevsehir." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derinkuyu_Underground_City"Dr. Ron Anjard in an article in the Summer, 1978 issue of Pursuit Magazine, claimed personal knowledge of 44 underground cities beneath the surface of North America, six of which are supposedly located on the West Coast." www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_underground18a.htm
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Post by stepnwolf on Oct 21, 2013 20:36:11 GMT 9.5
Her/She ? Elohim is plural isn't it, which would indicate gods If it were only so simple! In Hebrew, as well as several other languages, there is a use of the plural form called majestic plural or in the old days pluralis maiestatis. This was the grammatical form Queen Victoria used when she said, " we are not pleased." Not only is the plural ambiguous, the singular form, eloha ( אלוה), is feminine in the singular but receives a masculine plural -im ( ים-)ending. So the word for the deity can indicate one or many, feminine or masculine.
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Post by LorrB on Oct 22, 2013 6:41:46 GMT 9.5
Babel
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Post by paul on Oct 22, 2013 8:01:50 GMT 9.5
If Freemasonry has anything to do with the Annunaki, Nephilim, Elohim, etc ... where does the "properly prepared' bit come in? Are you suggesting that Masonry is essentially a blood-line organisation for the Sons of the Widow? I recall years ago meeting a woman in Cairns who said that her job was to keep people out of Wicca unless they were of the blood and knew it. Is there some parallel in Masonry?
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Post by LorrB on Oct 22, 2013 9:32:46 GMT 9.5
Yikes... no.. not even sure what you mean there. Anything to do with the Wisdom movement being a kind of spiritual bloodline?
But I was pondering upon my inability to see what you see with regards to 'visitors' and their connection to Freemasonry. It seemed to me to be a bit of an Outer experience versus Inner experience argument. And it was while I was thinking that that it popped into my head to ask you about the properly prepared bit. Must admit it didn't make much sense to me at that time.
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Post by paul on Oct 22, 2013 9:41:08 GMT 9.5
The Widow Isis was/is a visitor, traditionally from Sirius - as can be seen in the relevant hieroglyphs.
There appears to have been only one set of gods (at a time) and they left training for their half-breed offspring on their departure.
Some of that training still appears in Masonry, e.g. the triple grip, and teachings about the Holy Royal Arch, more generally known as An/On/TMH.
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