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Post by LorrB on Jun 2, 2011 15:42:16 GMT 9.5
I have received permission from a friend of mine to share with you an email she sent me. Quite a fortuitous email given that we are discussing St John and the Rose Croix elsewhere on the forum. This communication struck a real chord with me. Maybe it shone a little light (for me) on the whole Sons/Daughters/Virgins/Widows thing.. and how we maybe all those things ourselves regardless of our physical body. Dear Lorraine
I agree we must analyze, BUT real analysis cannot start until experience has happened. Otherwise, you are just swallowing dogma or accepting other people's words as true. Buddha said that you were not to believe anything he said unless and until you had experienced the same thing for yourself. It is like being a surgeon. You can read and study for years and years, but until you actually do the surgery, it is just imaginary and fantasy. Most surgeons develop their own technics once they get into the operating room. The Sons and Daughters of God are the balancing halves of ourselves. Like Jung said, we all both the feminine creative(anima) and the masculine intellectual(animus) within our psyches, but we have a tendency to favor either the anima or the animus side. The process of integration or wholeness is to discover and develop the weak side of our psyche. So creatives like me, need to get their heads out of the clouds and bring to earth all the great ideas we have. We need to work in, with, and through the world. We need to learn the intellectual qualities of organization, leadership, and honesty. This is what give birth to a "son" means in the mystical code language. Immaculate Conceptions are ideas from the essences or the divine. These concepts are then "born" into this realm to help humanity - not a flesh and blood human baby born of base animalistic lusts. The vision of the RedCross, Pink Ribbon for Breast Cancer research, and Save the Whales foundation are the Sons of Virgins. These huge organizations began as very small infants and have grown to world wide organizations. We creatives have the inspiration and drive to move mountains, but for the most part we cannot see the future or work within the essences.
Those who are intellectual need to loosen up and be a bit more creative. Change up the routine. See the humor in things. Add a little style with the function. They need to learn the creative or loving qualities of compassion, diplomacy, and flexibility. The highest levels will be able to see the future and understand the energy flows. This is what giving birth to a "daughter" means in the mystical code language.
The incident at the cross where Jesus tells Mother Mary that John is her son, is the continuation of her quest. He, Jesus, is going to physically die, but she is to teach the next prophet, just as she taught Jesus himself. So, her quest was not in vain and the message will not die with Jesus. John later writes the Book of Revelation, which is the spiritual quest written in mystical code. This dissertation confirms he has made the complete four part journey without having to physically die. Scholars have pretty much decided that Joseph, the father figure to Jesus growing up, died sometime after the Jesus was lost in Jerusalem and before the time Jesus was crucified. So John the Beloved disciple, who was hand picked by Jesus to be his successor and next male prophet of the Christian faith, would be considered the son of a widow.
Jesus also tells John that Mother Mary is now his (John's) mother. John is to protect and care for Mother Mary as if she were his own flesh and blood mother. This fulfills the earthly Jewish obligations of the first born son to see to the needs of his mother after he (Jesus) is dead. Jesus also accurately judges the other two men who were crucified with him, asks The Father to forgive them what they do, and accepts the punishment of crucifixion with dignity. Joseph of Arimathea, who was a member of the council who condemned Jesus, now sees that Jesus is not a crazed maniac bent on creating chaos, but a righteous man who is being wrongfully murdered. Joseph of A. then requests the body from the council and buries Jesus in a rock tomb that he had cut himself in order to personally atone for condemning a righteous man. He most probably was not "clean" for the upcoming Passover celebration, because he handled a dead body and must spend the rest of the holiday in seclusion in order not to contaminate anyone else. Which is why you don't see Joseph of A. in the first days after the crucifixion. He shows up again as the protector of the faith (who is none other than Mary Magdalene). Joseph is also stated as being the keeper of the Grail (feminine) and the Holy Spear (masculine). So, this tells us that he has traveled the spiritual road in both directions. He is a fully integrated personality in Jungian terms. In my book, I call this archetype: The Templar.
Most travel the spiritual road one time. They develop only the favored side of their psyche. They are only half way home. Very few actually travel the road both ways or develop both sides of their psyche. The route along the center pole for those who are fully integrated or whole is Up Down (The Templar) OR Down Up (The Mother). We call them saints whether they are beatified or not. However, Mary Magdalene traveled the spiritual road 3 times. First she is found after being struck by demons, which most likely was the spontaneous upsurge of kundalini that creates a type of insanity. Greek myth calls this mystical experience - rape. Medusa's rape being the most clear example of the spontaneous rise of kundalini in a creative personality and its nasty after effects. Second Mary M. becomes male or is able to bring Grace, the Divine Masculine, into her inner sanctum and wash all the demons from her soul. The legends of her giving birth to a daughter named Sarah are purely symbolic and the third trek along the spiritual road. The route is Up Down Up (The Magdalene). The mystical code words in these stories tell us she has gained the ability to see the future and thus was a prophetess. Jesus the Messiah, or Jesus Christ, traveled the spiritual road 4 times. The route is Down Up Down Up (The Christ).
nventr
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Post by LorrB on Jun 2, 2011 15:44:09 GMT 9.5
Thank you nventr for being so gracious as to allow me to share this here. Hopefully you drop in to see how this thread goes and be open to questions should they arise.
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Post by LorrB on Jun 3, 2011 13:33:58 GMT 9.5
phased you blokes out huh? Like Jung said, we all both the feminine creative(anima) and the masculine intellectual(animus) within our psyches, but we have a tendency to favor either the anima or the animus side. The process of integration or wholeness is to discover and develop the weak side of our psyche. .....
So creatives … need to get their heads out of the clouds and bring to earth all the great ideas they have. They need to work in, with, and through the world. They need to learn the intellectual qualities of organization, leadership, and honesty. This is what ‘give birth to a "son"’ means in the mystical code language. .....
Most travel the spiritual road one time. They develop only the favored side of their psyche. They are only half way home. Very few actually travel the road both ways or develop both sides of their psyche. The route along the center pole for those who are fully integrated or whole is Up Down (The Templar) OR Down Up (The Mother).
I thought these particular parts explained quite nicely those words we are all familiar with.... Sons of the Widow. (Note: I changed we to they to generalise) Regardless of our sex, we as masons are to further develop the animus side of our nature, to do the work, to put on the apron (not just think creatively about it). The GA has created the plan (absent anima = widow?) and the mason has volunteered himself or herself to carry out that plan. Build what has been envisioned. Well, that is how I interpreted it.
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Post by paul on Jun 3, 2011 13:40:35 GMT 9.5
If the animus/anima approach were applied to Masonry then males and females would be admitted as equals.
I notice that some Christian churches now allow female clergy and bishops - perhaps because of a shortage of suitable males.
Will Masonry admit women in order to save lodges?
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Post by LorrB on Jun 3, 2011 14:39:35 GMT 9.5
Money still talks, expecially when you have rates, insurances etc to pay.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2011 18:09:52 GMT 9.5
So too does encroaching legislation and expectations both within the institution and throughout the wider community.
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Post by nventr on Jun 4, 2011 15:34:49 GMT 9.5
If the animus/anima approach were applied to Masonry then males and females would be admitted as equals. This is not true. Masonry, Rose Cross, and Alchemy are all Up Down or intellectual/animus-based paths. Only 2/3 of men and 1/3 of women fit this mould and will benefit from this path. Even today the Templar level in Freemasonry requires that you complete the Master Mason level before you can even consider or be considered worthy to work at the Templar level. It goes back to King Arthur's knights. Only those who had completed knighthood were allowed to go on the Grail quest. Otherwise, all that you had built in character would be washed away by the waters of Grace. Plato's story of Atlantis describes this disastrous mystical event within the psyche in full detail. 1/3 of men and 2/3 of women are Down Up or creative/anima-based personalities. I notice that some Christian churches now allow female clergy and bishops - perhaps because of a shortage of suitable males. Protestant churches in the US have female clergy as a matter of course. Only the Catholics and fundamentalist refuse women such posts. Will Masonry admit women in order to save lodges? The Masons in the US already admit women.
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Post by nventr on Jun 4, 2011 16:11:43 GMT 9.5
Regardless of our sex, we as masons are to further develop the animus side of our nature, to do the work, to put on the apron (not just think creatively about it). The GA has created the plan (absent anima = widow?) and the mason has volunteered himself or herself to carry out that plan. Build what has been envisioned. Well, that is how I interpreted it. Actually, it is the other way around. Widow = absent animus or absent male qualities. Masons work to let go of ego or self through selfless service. By giving freely or not letting the left hand/brain know what the right hand/brain is doing, they are creating or building up the anima. These masculine & feminine labels are very confusing. They are different in each spiritual belief system. I am using Jung's system as the baseline for my theory. Anima - the feminine or creative qualities within the psyche An anima-based personality is called a "Virgin" in mystical code language. This is the beginner of the female or creative path. Animus - the masculine or intellectual qualities within the psyche An animus based personality is called a "Righteous Man" in mystical code language. Masonry calls this beginner along the intellectual path an apprentice. The Divine Masculine - The White Power - Grace, The Light, The Anointing or Blessing, Water from Heaven, power falling from the sky (lighting) The Divine Feminine - The Red Power - Passion, Kundalini, The Snake, The Wine, the power rising up from the earth (blood) The process of Wholeness or Holiness is to unite the earthly qualities to the Divine Opposite. So, an anima-based personality needs to bring down the Divine Masculine to create wholeness within her system. Which is why the Catholic prayer says: "Hail Mary, full of Grace. . . " Feminine qualities + Masculine power = Balance or Wholeness So, an animus-based personality is destroyed or punished by Thor's or Zeus' lightning bolt. The masculine qualities are overloaded with masculine energy. It creates an unbalanced state. Masculine qualities + Masculine power = Death Feminine qualities + Feminine power = Insanity Masculine qualities + Feminine power = Balance or Wholeness nventr
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Post by stewartedwards on Jun 5, 2011 5:39:22 GMT 9.5
Nventr, while I use a different construct, you are indeed correct. Remembering that I stumbled and bumbled my way through this, wondering what was happening and thinking that I was going a bit barmy at times, I do sometimes wonder how many people can relate what they are taught/read with the events in their daily mundane life. For it is all there - through the shopping, commuting, work, paying the bills, etc, everything you need to achieve balance, unity. I remember the first time that I felt my energy rise upwards, I still tingle a little thinking about it and can feel the lump in my throat the first time when it got stuck, and equally the first time that I realised the downward illumination after finding my inner light and reconnecting. And when they balanced - wow. I could quite literally run at 300lbs for 10 miles with some small hills on an out and back run to the minute on each half.
Here is the big question for you to ponder Nventr - once you have experienced all of this, what do you then do? What is then your purpose in life once you have answered the eternal questions? The answers are suprisingly simple, and from the little that I know reflected in the role of the PM in a lodge. Once of my earlier mistakes with freemasonry was assuming that all PMs understood and could do what is required.
Feeling your kunalindi rise, finding the light, feeling part of unity etc are all but the first steps. It is what comes afterwards that makes you think as you do see the hidden beaty of life, its strength and its wisdom, which once simply looked like chaos moving in a generally positive direction.
The masonic world has effectively laid down signposts directing the way through time and associated keys to help open doors, which I for example, picked up on, the question is what signposts and keys are true masons today laying down for future generations to help them find their way?
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Post by nventr on Jun 5, 2011 15:55:49 GMT 9.5
Dear stewartedwards, I posted this on the Symbolic Living forum under Re: The "Will of God". Is it real?
It seems to me that this is the crux of your question.
This is a very interesting question that has many facets. There are basic principles that we all must adhere to in order for people to live together in groups. Whether mutually agreed to law is common sense and common courtesy or God's Will for our lives is up for debate. Without law, chaos would reign and it would be like the American wild west complete with daily shoot-outs on main street.
However, the psychological aspects of belief can be quite tricky. I agree with Buddha. Don't accept any other person's belief system unless and until you have experienced it yourself.
Leaving everything up to God's Will is a two edged sword. It is important to know who you are in order to understand what is best for you. What is good for you, is warning signs for someone else.
For the animus, intellectual, or ego based personality, doing what you can and leaving the rest to God's Will is a sign of maturity and letting go of self.
For the anima, creative, or egoless based personality, leaving everything to God's Will is procrastination, a sign of hopelessness or depression, or just flat out irresponsibility.
Does God really have a Will for individuals, all unique according to the person or as a collective?
Again, there is a double edged sword concerning this question.
The animus, intellectual, or ego-based personality needs to develop caring, compassion, and flexibility. Public service is a universal way to achieve these qualities. They become one of an army that is a beneficial presence in the world. Maybe they are more comfortable in a certain position, but for the most part they are just a piece in a larger puzzle. This helps them to think of others, both those they work with and those they help, ahead of themselves. This is more of a collective, group, or world vision.
The anima, creative, or egoless-based personality needs to develop organization, logic, and focus. They do not have a strong sense of self or I. Since they always consider others first, they juggle multiple obligations, cannot compartmentalize their emotions, allow themselves to be used, and scatter their talents. These people need to start including what "I" want in their considerations. For these types, it is important that they have a sense of their place in the world or their reason for being born. Immaculate conception is when a divine concept or divine inspiration is planted in your being. It is the point when you know what it is you are to focus on in life. When they come to that point, then "The Father and I are One." It has nothing to do with ego or personal desire. Usually this inspiration comes from a bad experience in life. When you look back it seems that the life lessons you learned were stepping stones to the final project.
The Pink Ribbon campaign for Breast Cancer comes to mind. The lady who started that organization never in her wildest dreams would have ego-type wanted to start that organization. But instead of buckling under the sadness and despair of her mother's death, a fire was lit and she "wanted" or accepted God's Will to make sure no one else had to suffer the same fate. This is a personal vision that is given from the essences or from the divine. In ancient times, a woman's focus was on the survival of her family, especially the first born son. Today, it is acceptable for a women to have a broader focus and voice new theories or concepts.
So, which is right? It is a very fine line. The story of Solomon and deciding who was the mother of the surviving child can help. The woman who would give her son away in order to insure his life is the ego-less woman and a real "*Mother" or creative personality, full of caring and choosing life. The woman who would consider her own personal comfort first, roll over in the night and smother her own child, and allow the surviving child to be cut in half is the intellectual and legalistic type. She needs to be out running a business or practicing law and not trying to uphold society's expectations of nurturing children. Anytime you try to be something you are not, failure is a forgone conclusion.
Know thy self. Understand thy neighbor. There is no right or wrong in the world, only what is right or wrong for you and your personality type.
nventr
*Mother is a four pillar archetype. The archetypical four pillars are: The Mother, The Templar, The Magdalene, The Christ.
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Post by stewartedwards on Jun 5, 2011 16:55:03 GMT 9.5
Anytime you try to be something you are not, failure is a forgone conclusion. Indeed.
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Post by nventr on Jun 6, 2011 0:32:32 GMT 9.5
The masonic world has effectively laid down signposts directing the way through time and associated keys to help open doors, which I for example, picked up on, the question is what signposts and keys are true masons today laying down for future generations to help them find their way? Here is part of a post from my friend Sammy's brand new forum called Mysteries of the Earth. I think it is relevant to this part of your question. It is under the heading of "the Knights Templar." Masonry's use of secrecy kept them under the radar and safe from harm when such things [religious persecution] were relevant issues. The Masons were working to keep a living line of people who understood the teaching. The rituals were designed to ignite the understanding. So, even if the person carrying the knowledge did not know all the inner meanings, the message would pass on until it reached fertile soil. If everyone was killed, or martyred then the knowledge would die. We have seen that happen with many indigenous tribes. It is sickening to imagine the wealth of knowledge lost by the massacring of the Inca, Maya, and all the other native american tribes. Now that personal freedoms have come out of the dark ages, secrecy is now just a means of deepening fraternity. nventr
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Post by mgc on Jun 6, 2011 0:59:14 GMT 9.5
i get the feeling it is often tradition that is practiced, not its underlying cause.. as tradtions can alter over time, losing its initial purpose is a genuine concern..
suppose we remove the tradition and get straight to the point.. what would that mean for free masonry?
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Post by stewartedwards on Jun 6, 2011 2:19:27 GMT 9.5
Much to think about nventr Masonry's use of secrecy kept them under the radar and safe from harm when such things [religious persecution] were relevant issues. The Masons were working to keep a living line of people who understood the teaching. The rituals were designed to ignite the understanding. So, even if the person carrying the knowledge did not know all the inner meanings, the message would pass on until it reached fertile soil.This is also my belief. The problem comes when that fertile soil is reached and if there are two few with such understanding to help guide and support those who are getting to grip with it find their way (When eg 20 masons tell an initiate - dont worry about it Fred, just learn it after all its just mummery, poor Fred may start listening to them and not his heart and fail to progress). Now that said I know that what you say does still work in the masonic world today but equally I also know that you can get grief in the process. Looking at the masonic world from the perspective you state nventr illustrates precisely how I have come to have some of the masonic experiences that I have, which quite frankly some masons simply dont believe (or perhaps feel scared to believe for what it would mean). It is however very pleasing to read you write about such things nventr, for once more masons realise that there is hidden knowledge (which is hidden in plain sight) within masonic ritual and a critical mass is reached, the masonic world will begin to revitalise in a way that some may seem as unthinkable as the Berlin wall coming down. The benefits to the masonic world to masons and to society would be breathtaking. But he ho its just mummery, a price to pay (learning the ritual) to join an exclusive social club, no more and no less, I have too often been informed.
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Post by Henka on Jun 6, 2011 2:34:33 GMT 9.5
Much to think about nventr Masonry's use of secrecy kept them under the radar and safe from harm when such things [religious persecution] were relevant issues. The Masons were working to keep a living line of people who understood the teaching. The rituals were designed to ignite the understanding. So, even if the person carrying the knowledge did not know all the inner meanings, the message would pass on until it reached fertile soil.This is also my belief. The problem comes when that fertile soil is reached and if there are two few with such understanding to help guide and support those who are getting to grip with it find their way (When eg 20 masons tell an initiate - dont worry about it Fred, just learn it after all its just mummery, poor Fred may start listening to them and not his heart and fail to progress). Now that said I know that what you say does still work in the masonic world today but equally I also know that you can get grief in the process. Looking at the masonic world from the perspective you state nventr illustrates precisely how I have come to have some of the masonic experiences that I have, which quite frankly some masons simply dont believe (or perhaps feel scared to believe for what it would mean). It is however very pleasing to read you write about such things nventr, for once more masons realise that there is hidden knowledge (which is hidden in plain sight) within masonic ritual and a critical mass is reached, the masonic world will begin to revitalise in a way that some may seem as unthinkable as the Berlin wall coming down. The benefits to the masonic world to masons and to society would be breathtaking. But he ho its just mummery, a price to pay (learning the ritual) to join an exclusive social club, no more and no less, I have too often been informed. And you know this how? By speaking to a few disillusioned Masons and participating on forums which represent a very tiny percentage of the fraternity? There are many, many of us who do understand the underlying principles, but simply do not speak of it to outsiders. We take an obligation to always conceal, and never reveal the ancient mysteries of Freemasonry, among other things. As you state, this is your belief, which implies it is not direct knowledge. You are free to speculate to your hearts content, but it will remain just that, speculation. Same with any non-initiate.
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Post by LorrB on Jun 6, 2011 8:56:12 GMT 9.5
Regardless of our sex, we as masons are to further develop the animus side of our nature, to do the work, to put on the apron (not just think creatively about it). The GA has created the plan (absent anima = widow?) and the mason has volunteered himself or herself to carry out that plan. Build what has been envisioned. Well, that is how I interpreted it. Actually, it is the other way around. Widow = absent animus or absent male qualities. I'll do a henka here *forehead slap* ... of course it is the absent animus that makes the widow. Thinking one thing writing another
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Post by LorrB on Jun 6, 2011 9:13:51 GMT 9.5
PS .... I am really enjoying this thread ....
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Post by Stewart Edwards on Jun 6, 2011 21:22:44 GMT 9.5
Wow henka, what a post And you know this how? By speaking to a few disillusioned Masons and participating on forums which represent a very tiny percentage of the fraternity? There are many, many of us who do understand the underlying principles, but simply do not speak of it to outsiders. We take an obligation to always conceal, and never reveal the ancient mysteries of Freemasonry, among other things. True, but is it not also true that different fraternities have dieerent rules over what they can share with us profane folk? I mean more than one ugle mason has, iirc, stated, that it is ony the signs,tokens,words that are secret the rest is talkable about? And arent the UGLE as a matter of policy encouraging members to be open and talk about masonry? Hence it does sometimes happen. And sometimes I forget that not all fraternities share ugles openness. Haven spoken with and correspnded with a number of masons on such issues, I do sometimes forget that to some fraternities this is a big no no. For that I appologise to you Henka. I would however respectfully suggest that in the dawn of the 21st century it may be time for the masonic world to find the inner courage to follow ugles lead in openness.
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Post by nventr on Jun 7, 2011 4:46:11 GMT 9.5
i get the feeling it is often tradition that is practiced, not its underlying cause.. as tradtions can alter over time, losing its initial purpose is a genuine concern.. suppose we remove the tradition and get straight to the point.. what would that mean for free masonry? For the most part, the underlying cause is what created the tradition and the ritual. When you look through history, we find that traditions changed when the understanding of the underlying cause expanded. There will always be the those who miss the point, make the wrong turn, twist the Truth, or use spirituality to gain power, but that does not and cannot blemish Truth. It is sad to watch those who have been disillusioned by false prophets lose faith, blame the divine, and turn away from Truth. This is why finding Truth for yourself is key. Then it is possible enjoy the beauty of ritual and no one will be allowed to take you for a ride.
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Post by Henka on Jun 7, 2011 8:01:41 GMT 9.5
Wow henka, what a post And you know this how? By speaking to a few disillusioned Masons and participating on forums which represent a very tiny percentage of the fraternity? There are many, many of us who do understand the underlying principles, but simply do not speak of it to outsiders. We take an obligation to always conceal, and never reveal the ancient mysteries of Freemasonry, among other things. True, but is it not also true that different fraternities have dieerent rules over what they can share with us profane folk? I mean more than one ugle mason has, iirc, stated, that it is ony the signs,tokens,words that are secret the rest is talkable about? And arent the UGLE as a matter of policy encouraging members to be open and talk about masonry? Hence it does sometimes happen. And sometimes I forget that not all fraternities share ugles openness. Haven spoken with and correspnded with a number of masons on such issues, I do sometimes forget that to some fraternities this is a big no no. For that I appologise to you Henka. I would however respectfully suggest that in the dawn of the 21st century it may be time for the masonic world to find the inner courage to follow ugles lead in openness. I think not, I suggest the opposite. The world still is not ready for the mysteries. The emphasis on openness is a reaction to accusations of a "old boy's network" by the British public, who seem, despite their conception of themselves, to be pretty ignorant. The emphasis on public charity in the modern Craft has overshadowed the true purpose in some cases, albeit not in all.
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