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Post by LorrB on Jun 7, 2011 9:15:01 GMT 9.5
It is sad to watch those who have been disillusioned by false prophets lose faith, blame the divine, and turn away from Truth. This is why finding Truth for yourself is key. Then it is possible enjoy the beauty of ritual and no one will be allowed to take you for a ride. Finding the Truth for yourself is the key. I was thinking about this idea last night, nventr. I remember the sequence of the thoughts also. Each of us have to build our own temples in which to worship. Like the Three Little Pigs we all have free choice of the materials we use. I remembered Noah and those that jeered at him as he built his ark. Lions Code of Ethics state that to build up ones business (or Temple), it is not necessary to tear down anothers. Build up and not destroy. If one's temple is built of physics, that is fine If one's temple is built of metaphysics, that is fine If one's temple is built according to someone else's plan, that is fine. If one's temple is built according to an inner self direction, that is fine. To each his own, imo. (Lesson? You try knocking my temple down, I'm gonna take a leaf from Noah's book and ask "how long you can tread water!" ;D )
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Post by Stewart Edwards on Jun 7, 2011 18:39:01 GMT 9.5
Henka, if you are willing I would ve very interested to hear why. I realise that we have both found our way to the mysteries in different ways but my experience and my heart tells me that not only are many finding their own way to the mysteries, many are also stumbling because of a lack of structured "schooling" being available, accessible and perceived relevant to them. Clearly I could be wrong henka, whichis why I am genuinely interested in why you believe the world is not ready for tehmysteries taht wil rebalance it and enable the human race to walk out of puberty. The world still is not ready for the mysteries.
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Post by LorrB on Jun 8, 2011 10:12:49 GMT 9.5
The world... what a mess we are in right now. Henka is probably right - with so little power look at the damage we cause.
Maybe we have to grow naturally to manhood before we can be trusted with 'dads' super powered vehicles. He doesn't want us to harm ourselves.
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Post by mgc on Jun 8, 2011 13:17:25 GMT 9.5
would u leave a child to its own devices regarding upbringing? guidance: -quality many a "mentor" lacks profundity and / or skill.. -quantity we o.d. on improper "guidance" while antidotes r few and far between..
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Post by LorrB on Jun 14, 2011 9:38:26 GMT 9.5
Growing naturally in my books included loving guidance. And if not from one's parents I do believe that we come hard wired with inner guidance. Whether we slow down enough to stop and listen to it, or to the parents, is another matter.
It is an idiot parent who gives an 18yr old a high powered car to drive, imo.
Antidote? Age and experience.
And for mature age idiots (my favourite word today) there is no excuse. You have chosen your path, let it lead you where it will.
(Some might say I fall into this category ;D )
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Post by LorrB on Jun 14, 2011 9:54:59 GMT 9.5
would u leave a child to its own devices regarding upbringing? guidance: -quality many a "mentor" lacks profundity and / or skill.. Can I add patience to that list. That is an interesting point you raise, mgc. We have had several (self-appointed) Keepers of the Wisdom joint this forum who were pleased, and willing, to point out the errors in some of our ideas, but who left very early on in the discussions that ensued. Debating a subject can be a no-no for some folk. Maybe knowledgeable people sometimes lack the skill to engage those of differing opinions long enough to pass on that knowledge. Lack patience.
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Post by Smithee on Jun 14, 2011 17:48:15 GMT 9.5
We have had several (self-appointed) Keepers of the Wisdom joint this forum who were pleased, and willing, to point out the errors in some of our ideas, but who left very early on in the discussions that ensued. Debating a subject can be a no-no for some folk. You have some nerve! I left not because of debate / Just the opposite. I left following a prolonged and deafening silence in response to reasonable, repeated and direct questions. My decision that this site is toxic was since confirmed by your deletion of Bro. Tamrin's link proving the Baileys' antisemitism: upstel.net/~rooster/bailey.html
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Post by LorrB on Jun 15, 2011 9:26:12 GMT 9.5
Dear Smithee... if you read the link you provided carefully, you will see that it is the commentator/interpreter who is the most venomous both in his interpretation of Bailey's words and his judgement.
I don't feel for Alice Bailey one way or the other, I have no vested interest in promoting her views on things finite, or infinite. As I said in a previous post, read what she says and then take it or leave it. Freemasons are trained to maintain equilibrium... especially with the words of dead people - we can't change them or their words.
But to put things into perspective you might remember that the god of the Old Testament exterminated whole communities because of the sins of a few, or the fathers (long since dead and gone.) I would take a bet that neither you nor Tamrin would go around trying to inform masons that their VSL contains "filth".
For the record, I do occasionally attend Synagogue with some friends of mine. I love it. Lovely people, lovely atmosphere. I will a ask them about Alice Bailey. Thought.. does the Jewish religion consider reincarnation in their views? Most Christians don't. Will have to check that out.
That might be a key to what Bailey writes about. Bad people will be born again into bad situations so they get their just deserts and learn a lessons or two... and no-one can doubt that the Jewish people have suffered a lot over the years. Maybe she was looking for an explanation for their suffering. I have no idea.
You have your ideas, I have mine. Lets leave it at that. What is true for each of us at a particular point in time is a result of our personal experiences and searching for the larger Truth ... and we can learn much about ourselves, and the world, but considering what everybody has to say.
HGW
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Post by Smithee on Jun 15, 2011 18:17:53 GMT 9.5
You may leave what you like when you like, unless banned like Tamrin, I'll leave when I like. I am very, very sorry that you are not affronted by the Baileys' filth. For what it is worth, I consider the V.S.L. does contain bigoted filth and I have discussed it with Brethren, who mostly agree. For me and many other Masons, the book seems to owe less to divine inspiration than to secular aspiration. That fact does not make the Bailey's bigoted filth any more acceptable. Also as far as Jewish belief in reincarnation, you will find it is well established in Kabbalistic circles. In fact the Rabbi whose observations about the Baileys you so readily dismissed has written extensively on the subject upstel.net/~rooster/index.htmlI have asked Bro. Tamrin for his thoughts on your post tamrin.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=scandals&thread=516&page=2#10725
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Post by LorrB on Jun 16, 2011 8:59:46 GMT 9.5
I have been most concerned about the toxic posts of recent times and went searching for the start of where things started to go wrong. I didn’t have to go far to find what I was looking for and I must admit I was shocked, and embarrassed, that I did not recognise what was going on earlier.
It seems that we were targeted and hijacked for particular personal agendas.
The key that suggests the motive .. a post made by Tamrin.
I would like every reader of this forum (casual viewer or contributing member) to go to the thread entitled Geopolitics & Necessary Evils. I would like you to start perusing this thread at postings no 46 & 47, read from there.
The ugliness set in with the introduction of the themes The Third Reich and the ‘final solution’. Both subjects being introduced (illogically) and continually fanned by posters Tamrin and Smithee. Please pay particular attention to posts 59, 74, 79, 80, 84 …
Paul, being a whole lot wiser than me, smelled a rat and decided to stop posting on the subject, he was still just waiting for someone to name a few profound people.
As I have stated before, two things I have no time for ‘book burnings’ and hate filled posts. It is with a real sadness that I feel that I must exclude a Bro from further participation here.
Love is what matters ... all else is just a blind.
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Post by Smithee on Jun 16, 2011 18:13:04 GMT 9.5
It seems that we were targeted and hijacked for particular personal agendas. What agenda do you have in mind? All I am aware of in this context, for myself, is that of opposing bigotry. Conversely, I suspect Paul has an agenda of "cleansing" Freemasonry of its Jewish context and of ushering in a "new dispensation," in line with the Baileys' explicit agenda. From what I have read, he has been pushing this line for several years, so it is not all about what has been posted here. I am interested in how you might see Tamrin's opinion on "atonement" being the key to the agenda you have in mind. Here is Tamrin's opinion on your earlier post: tamrin.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=scandals&thread=516&page=3#10726
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Post by stewartedwards on Jun 16, 2011 21:58:00 GMT 9.5
Yikes
Earlier today I was reading about the European Union/Chinese negotiations on Human Rights and the difficulties that both sides have there. This made me realise that our world is In a state of flux, by which I mean that different countries with different cultures in different stages of their history interacting. Britain for example once condoned slavery, and servants were commonplace. Even 100 years ago women could not vote.
So what has this to do with Bailey and the "new dispensation" in masonry.
Well, let me start by saying that I have read half a dozen of Alice Baileys books and one by Foster Bailey. Fosters made perfect sense tome, but I did find Alices very hard work and somewhat difficult to relate to daily life. That said I did find that they have helped me enormously in my travels through life in terms of understanding the esoteric world.
Now, my point is a simple one, she was writing a long time ago now in the circumstances of her life as she knew it. Just as an upper class man 100 years ago in England could easily have balked at the prospect of his wife voting, or before that happily financed the slave trade.
The important point is whether Alices writings have any useful purpose in the 21st century? I would say that they have, for while I havent read any of her books for some years now, they have helped me make sense of some aspects of life. But just as, if I were to read the full version of our national anthem written a long time ago I would find a verse, that has since been removed, calling for my people the Scots to be exterminated, I can recognise that this was the English view of the time, but not of today. But at the time it was written it was. Hope that makes some sort of sense.
Now moving on to new dispensation. It is already taking place, there is no need to wait for it, for it has been progressively happening for a couple of decades now. It is the source of much of the changing masonic landscape that you see around you. In another few decades times it will have naturally happened. Just stand back at watch the masonic world, try to see the wood from the trees so to speak. I accept that I may be the only person who sees this, but it really is quite exciting to watch.
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Post by paul on Jun 17, 2011 8:09:39 GMT 9.5
I suspect Paul has an agenda of "cleansing" Freemasonry of its Jewish context Smithee's assessment of my significance clearly exceeds my own. Nevertheless, English-speaking Masonry having been partially de-Christianised thus allowing the use of non-Christian VSL, may wish to consider whether a more universal metaphor than King Solomon's Temple might also be valuable. Some continental forms of Masonry have proceeded further in removing religious contexts - for example not requiring belief in the Supreme Being.
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Post by LorrB on Jun 17, 2011 8:44:25 GMT 9.5
Yikes is good Stewie.
Smithee, until you two bought it to my attention I had no idea what Alice Bailey had to say about the Jewish people. I share Stewarts experience with those two writers exactly.
I find your considered use of the words ‘filth’ and ‘cleansing’ quite disturbing. I don’t access Philip Carter’s forum. It has been my experience that he causes disharmony wherever he posts. I have noted though that his particular form of Freemasonry is closely aligned to the teachings of Helena Blavatsky (someone I also admire) and that there has been a long standing rift between the followers of HPB and AAB over many long years.
The mystic traditions (including religious) from countries all over the world all tell the same story. The western world chose the story of Solomon to illustrate this knowledge other areas of the world have chosen other stories to illustrate the same thing.
And I can’t help but wish luck to anybody who wants to change Freemasonry… I am still hanging out (and working towards) getting the various families of Freemasonry to recognise each other.
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Post by paul on Jun 17, 2011 9:18:40 GMT 9.5
The Sons and Daughters of God are the balancing halves of ourselves. This proposition has both symbolic and literal meanings. Some of the meanings arise from what is meant by "self". If the "self" is not only trans-personal but also trans-human, then the self may well express through multiple souls. What happens when two of those souls meet while in human incarnation? Surely there is a bonding that is beyond intellectual understanding. Is that the origin of the expression: the love of my life?
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Post by LorrB on Jun 17, 2011 10:19:51 GMT 9.5
I have thought of it that way. I usually visualise this sort of thing as the pyramid shape with the All-Seeing Eye at the top.
All is One ... the individualised parts at the bottom of the pyramid (having left 'Eden' and 'multiplied') work their way back up to 'Eden' again(by merging or reuniting into a larger part of the whole).
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Post by paul on Jun 17, 2011 10:22:25 GMT 9.5
Can we translate the pyramid into a more organic form? As if Creation is alive
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Post by LorrB on Jun 17, 2011 12:33:37 GMT 9.5
I certainly think so.
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Post by stewartedwards on Jun 17, 2011 23:06:01 GMT 9.5
I am still hanging out (and working towards) getting the various families of Freemasonry to recognise each other. Recognise freemasons being nice to each other would be a good start At least the trend is in the right direction, with even HRH The Duke of Kent now publicly pointing out that masons are "ambassadors" of freemasonry. In his latest speech on the UGLE website he says that freemasons (at least ugle ones obviously) must be honest, understand the meaning of ritual and is able and willing to talk about freemasonry. This latter part he sees as being "essential to the survival of Freemasonry " Honesty should hopefully not be too much of a problem, understanding the meaning of ritual as opposed to the simple memorisation thereof may be a little more of a challenge, but it is this talking bit that he sees as being "essential" that could be where the real problems are found. For even on the internet, as has been shown time and time again, freemasons can have some difficulty talking, especially talking tolerantly in accordance with ugles primary tenet. Now in good old English Establishment fashion he has grasped the issue just as it was becoming a problem on the internet and booted his members up the bum (chaps you are ambassadors and you need to think about what being an ambassador means). So as the masonic landscape continues to evolve we have the most senior English freemason tactfully deal with relevant issues that should hopefully in time aid better understanding. And in time this should lead to mutual tolerance and in time mutual recognition, where appropriate in a manner that enables the masonic world in the 21st century. LorrB keep working for sooner or later the critical mass will be reached.
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