Rationality vs Experience

[LorrB]

Rationality vs Experience

The dictionary states that a rational person uses sense, reason and logic.
My question is: Can sense, reason and logic be a hindrance to discovering the truth of some matters.

I was watching a programme on the Bermuda Triangle on the Discovery Channel. The incidence that really caught my attention was a non-fatal one. A pilot was flying a small aircraft (can’t remember if it was single or double engine) whose top speed was 190 mph. He was caught in the middle of a storm from which he could see no escape, until he saw ‘a tunnel’ open before him with blue sky at the end. He flew through the tunnel of cloud. Whilst flying through the tunnel he noted that, as well as the cloud swirling around there were also black bands at regular spaces, a spiral.

Four things happened… his instrumentation went haywire, he felt as though the aircraft was being pulled back, then he felt the aircraft pulled forward, then there was the odd experience of being weightless.

When he flew out of the cloud tunnel he was over Miami… an impossibility given the time... it meant that somehow his very small aircraft flew at 2000 mph.

This story has been verified by Air Traffic Control. They had him on radar before the storm, lot him through the storm, and saw his craft ‘appear in an instant’ over the coastal city.

Scientists have conceded that Matter and Dark (bands) Matter interacting could explain the pull me-push you and weightless effect. The have discounted this explanation however because it would take the power of thousands of atom bombs to produce the effect.

This is sense, reason and logic in action.

What puzzles me is that – the event happened, it has been proven by radar, but then it is rejected simply because it did not fit in with what scientists can understand at this point in time. This is a case of ‘if I can’t understand it, or I can’t explain it, it didn’t happen’.

Which is the best teacher - experience or a rational mind?

[paul]

I had a friend who reported a number of time warps including long distance driving taking much too short a time and cooking, e.g. potatoes for 200 taking half the time it usually did. The cooking instances occurred when running late.

[mgc]

a rational person would say that if it really happened, it really happened..

if what really happened doesnt confirm the scientific theories, it is time to review those theories.. to many scientists dismay, this happens quite often..

there r also a lot of xamples in which things seem to happen or deliberately have been made to look as if they happened, as any magician can show u.. any evidence should therefor be xamined very closely..

[Henka]

That they lost the radar track in the storm and he reappeared when he came out of it does not "prove" that dark matter had anything to do with it.

[mgc]

the question is; how can a non-jet do 2000 mph? and was that measurement correct?

[LorrB]

Jun 6, 2011 12:26:16 GMT 9.5 Henka said:

That they lost the radar track in the storm and he reappeared when he came out of it does not "prove" that dark matter had anything to do with it.

It was the scientist who bought up the dark matter bit. Apparently they know how it works ??

I'm just the messenger.

[LorrB]

I just found this... don't know if it is the same person I saw on Discovery Channel, I didn't pay attention to his name, but the story is the very similar. Except I do remember that on DiscCh they did mention top speed for the aircraft was 195 mph and the 2000 mph ??

www.bermuda-triangle.org/html/bruce_gernon.html

[paul]

The rationalistic part of humans finds its self-image threatened by events or concepts that are inconsistent with its own frameworks.

Rather than consider that it may have been wrong (for centuries) it will:

- reject the data
- edit the relevant memories
- reject/punish the messenger
- blame/punish the emotional and physical parts of its human host

[tamrin]

Jun 6, 2011 15:30:41 GMT 9.5 paul said:

The rationalistic part of humans finds its self-image threatened by events or concepts that are inconsistent with its own frameworks.

Rather than consider that it may have been wrong (for centuries) it will:

- reject the data
- edit the relevant memories
- reject/punish the messenger
- blame/punish the emotional and physical parts of its human host

Conversely, there is that with which I concur:

An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof

Marcello Truzzi


Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

Carl Sagan


The weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness

Pierre-Simon Laplace


A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence

David Hume

[paul]

QED?

[Deleted]

Jun 6, 2011 17:29:02 GMT 9.5 paul said:

QED?

Q.E.D.!

[LorrB]

Quod erat demonstrandum ... which was to be shown or demonstrated.

So I guess Nature, in the instance above, demonstrated that some things occur for which there are no current scientific explanations. Several people were witnessed the event, and a mechanical contraption recorded the event...(no human interference). What's the problem with believing in this particular case?

[tamrin]

Jun 7, 2011 8:19:19 GMT 9.5 LorrB said:

So I guess Nature, in the instance above, demonstrated that some things occur for which there are no current scientific explanations. Several people were witnessed the event, and a mechanical contraption recorded the event...(no human interference). What's the problem with believing in this particular case?

Once there was no current scientific explanation for lighting: From that lack, it didn't follow that flashes were necessarily or even reasonably spears from Zeus, as was the explanation given. That was a case of a "god of the gaps" argument.

[LorrB]

? Who is talking about God?

[tamrin]

Jun 7, 2011 9:22:22 GMT 9.5 LorrB said:

? Who is talking about God?

"God of the Gaps" is the term commonly used but the principle applies equally to any dubious explanation being argued for on the basis of there not being a more credible explanation. Just because we don't have an explanation, doesn't mean we should have to accept nonsense. While at times frustrating, we live surrounded by mysteries we cannot penetrate.

[LorrB]

There is a condition worse than blindness, and that is seeing something that isn't there - Thomas Hardy

So much for imagination.
Creation depends on imagination, it provides the Plan of the Work.
Thomas Hardy was obviously not an architect.

We can see with the physical eyes, and what we are able to see depends on frequency.

We can see with the eyes of the mind, and likewise what we are able to see depends on frequency.

To deny what another sees might be demonstrating short sightedness?

[LorrB]

we live surrounded by mysteries we cannot penetrate.

... but Fellowcraft are given the task of unravelling the secrets and mysteries of Nature and Science.

You giving up already?

[mgc]

What's the problem with believing in this particular case?

all i can say at this time is;
i dont know what caused the reputedly observed effects, so getting to the bottom of this requires further study..

i.e.
has any1 else seen this cloud? any other planes in the air at that time and place? (multiple sources and verification!)

[paul]

Yesterday upon the stair
I met a man who wasn’t there
He wasn’t there again today
Oh, how I wish he’d go away

When I came home last night at three
The man was waiting there for me
But when I looked around the hall
I couldn’t see him there at all!
Go away, go away, don’t you come back any more!
Go away, go away, and please don’t slam the door

Last night I saw upon the stair
A little man who wasn’t there
He wasn’t there again today
Oh, how I wish he’d go away




I used to live in a modern house that had a ghost come to visit. I would typically hear it when I was in the bath. I would hear the front door open. If the door scraped on the plastic mat then a human had arrived. If the door did not scrape then it was the ghost.

[LorrB]

Jun 7, 2011 13:42:03 GMT 9.5 mgc said:

What's the problem with believing in this particular case?

all i can say at this time is;
i dont know what caused the reputedly observed effects, so getting to the bottom of this requires further study..

i.e.
has any1 else seen this cloud? any other planes in the air at that time and place? (multiple sources and verification!)

It was in 1979, John Hutchison had shown that if electromagnetic fields of different wave lengths interplay with each other, at some point there may be strange things happening like - water swirling in a cup, objects like wood or metal start rising from the floor and float around, or some objects can even shoot off at fantastic speed.

Electromagnetism is the magnetic field that gets generated if a current is passed through a wire or a coil. Hutchison used his own apartment in Vancouver for his experiments. Due to lack of space, he crammed his many instruments in his small apartment. Almost all of them were crude machines generating different wavelengths of electromagnetic fields and working on normal power supply.

He demonstrated the strange behavior of objects over 750 times and proved that due to interplay of such electromagnetic fields, apparently weird things can happen.
For example metals melt, or break by sliding sidewise, or become white hot but do not burn anything that touches it.

There were cases where glass mirror got shattered outside his house, neighbors complain that objects in their house have started rising automatically from the floor.

In fact, Hutchison himself observed such strange phenomenon for the first time when he left all his machines powered on while working on some other experiments. An object unexpectedly touched his shoulder. He turned around to see that the object had risen from the floor and was now floating in the air.

John Hutchison has himself observed strange formation of metallic type fog which he could not see through. Many of the remarkable results were photographed and documented by McDonnell Douglas Aerospace and the Max Planck Institute in Germany.
Hutchison goes on to say "I have personally experienced the grayish-type mist when I was doing my high voltage research; and this mist would appear and disappear. To look at it, it looks like metallic. I couldn’t see through it. So it exists . . .it exists."

Read the whole story here.

www.bermuda-attractions.com/bermuda2_0000b3.htm

Weird coloured fog is a constant in Bermuda Triangle incidents, some yellow, some green.

Noteworthy might be the fact that there is an unusually high amount of iron in the area.