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Post by paul on Apr 21, 2012 8:07:40 GMT 9.5
Jeremiah 10:11 11. So shall you say to them, "The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth, shall perish from the earth and from beneath these heavens.
Psalm 82 'You are Gods [Elohim], And all of you are sons of the Most High. Surely you will die just as men do; And like any one of the princes you will fall!'
Why do the gods die?
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Post by Henka on Apr 21, 2012 8:29:32 GMT 9.5
Jeremiah 10:11 11. So shall you say to them, "The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth, shall perish from the earth and from beneath these heavens. Psalm 82 'You are Gods [Elohim], And all of you are sons of the Most High. Surely you will die just as men do; And like any one of the princes you will fall!' Why do the gods die? Because they weren't gods. Not fish aliens either.
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Post by paul on Apr 21, 2012 8:52:57 GMT 9.5
Because they weren't gods. Not fish aliens either. What then were the sons of the Most High who would die like men?
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Post by paul on Apr 21, 2012 9:00:23 GMT 9.5
1 Corinthians 8:5 for even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven, whether upon earth -- as there are gods many and lords many...
So St Paul was foolish enough to admit 2 categories (lords and gods) and that they could be on earth as well as in heaven.
Surely it would have been easier to just deny their existence? Or would local knowledge have prevented that?
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Post by paul on Apr 22, 2012 9:28:43 GMT 9.5
...all of you are sons of the Most High. ... Who were the sons of the Most High who were being addressed? Obviously they were not sons of the Widow. In some accounts the Most High has a spouse - as perhaps could be deduced from the presence of sons. Where were the daughters?
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Post by LorrB on Apr 26, 2012 9:11:20 GMT 9.5
Titles are titles, it does not necessary follow that the titled are how they are described.
Grand Commanders, etc etc, often can't even rule themselves.
'Most High' might be applicable to many different levels.
'High' might be a word like 'Deep' ... it has no relevance to position. ie highest vibration, spirit?
The Great Parental Self (Spirit) in Huna, is pictured as an eight on its side.. male/female energy. God Father/God Mother.
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Post by LorrB on Apr 26, 2012 9:13:22 GMT 9.5
I have often wondered why we take the Dreamers/Seers/Experiencers of old most seriously (as in they never erred or were mistaken). I think this is an error or mistake. (No offence to Jeremiah )
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Post by paul on Apr 26, 2012 11:19:29 GMT 9.5
.... 'High' might be a word like 'Deep' ... it has no relevance to position. ie highest vibration, spirit?... The English translation leaves a bit to be desired - there being little need to distinguish gods in the English culture. The Hebrew, Sumerian and Egyptian terms may have meanings more relevant to the accounts. For example Ilu from Sumer and Akkad can equally be translated as god and tall - hence the Hebrew El Elyon can be translated as tall of the tall ones i.e the most high. And The Most High is also known as An/Anu/On (and Holy Arch - being associated with the pole star) and the offspring of TMH may also be tall e.g. the Anakim - the sons of Anak Numbers 13:33 Young's Literal Translation (YLT) 33and there we saw the Nephilim, sons of Anak, of the Nephilim; and we are in our own eyes as grasshoppers; and so we were in their eyes.' Now it is clear how Abraham recognised as a god, the god of his fathers that he had never met and it is equally clear why the god wanted a large meal - eventually settling for a ram rather than a human.
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Post by LorrB on Apr 26, 2012 11:46:25 GMT 9.5
The BIBLE specifically details features of the GIANTS:
Deuteronomy 3:11 - For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of GIANTs; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.
Isaiah 17:4 - And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named GOLIATH, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.
2 Samuel 21:20 - And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the GIANT.
1 Chronicles 20:6 - And yet again there was war at Gath, where was a man of great stature, whose fingers and toes were four and twenty, six on each hand, and six on each foot: and he also was the son of the GIANT. and.. In an ancient text of the Jews, we read an astonishing description of some of these gigantic Amorites whom the Israelites conquered. In Buber's Tanhuma, Devarim 7, the text tells us of a Rabbi Johnanan ben Zakkai's encounter with the Roman Emperor Hadrian. This event occurred in about A.D. 135, soon after the Roman victory in the Bar Kochba war, when the Jews rebelled against the Romans. The text reads:
"The wicked emperor Hadrian, who conquered Jerusalem, boasted, 'I have conquered Jerusalem with great power.' Rabbi Johanan ben Zakkai said to him, 'Do not boast. Had it not been the will of Heaven, you would not have conquered it.' Rabbi Johanan then took Hadrian into a cave and showed him the bodies of Amorites who were buried there. One of them measured eighteen cubits [approximately 30 feet] in height. He said, 'When we were deserving, such men were defeated by us, but now, because of our sins, you have defeated us'" (quoted in Judaism, edited by Arthur Hertzberg, p.155-156, George Braziller, New York: 1962).
Thirty feet tall! The bones of these men were still in existence during the time of Josephus, the Jewish historian of the first century! www.his-forever.com/giants_the_bible_and_enoch.htm(emphasis mine)
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Post by LorrB on Apr 26, 2012 11:47:09 GMT 9.5
... hands do seem to play an important role in Freemasonry... (just an idle thought)..
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Post by paul on Apr 26, 2012 12:11:52 GMT 9.5
So why do the gods die?
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Post by LorrB on Apr 26, 2012 13:29:02 GMT 9.5
...cause giants die, seems they are not immortal?
Aliens most likely die also (just for henka).
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Post by paul on Apr 26, 2012 13:38:43 GMT 9.5
I seem to recall reading that Marduk (Ra) was captured by humans and eventually died in Babylon where his body was preserved in oil and observed later by Alexander the Great
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Post by Henka on Apr 27, 2012 5:21:07 GMT 9.5
I seem to recall reading that Marduk (Ra) was captured by humans and eventually died in Babylon where his body was preserved in oil and observed later by Alexander the Great Link?
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Post by Henka on Apr 27, 2012 5:25:29 GMT 9.5
Oh, never mind, I found it. Google is our friend:
Alexander of Macedon, "The Great" to those who celebrate successful warring, believed himself son of Ra-Amon, aka Marduk, rather than Phillip of Macedonia.
In 334 B.C.E. Alexander crossed his army into Asia to fight the Persians, and, after he won his first battle with the Persians, rushed to Egypt, where Priests at Siwa confirmed his identity as son of Marduk. The priests sent him to Thebes for coronation.
In Thebes, Marduk's priests crowned Alexander Pharoh, reigning for Marduk/Ra-Amon.
Then Alexander went to Babylon.
There, in 331 B.C.E., he entered Marduk's temple to hold Marduk's hands and receive the "god'"s blessing, as had successive conquerors of Babylon. But he arrived too late.
"Alexander saw the god lying in a coffin, his body immersed or preserved in special oils. Marduk was no longer alive." [Sitchin, Z., 2007, page 222]
Paul, you are citing Sitchin again!
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Post by paul on Apr 27, 2012 6:10:28 GMT 9.5
... Paul, you are citing Sitchin again! Do you believe that Sitchin was wrong in all of the details he described in that series of events?
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Post by LorrB on Apr 27, 2012 9:31:18 GMT 9.5
Can we throw in a little Velikovsky here (another one of my heroes).
For what it is worth, I think Marduk was a comet (or planet) and the remains of Tiamet (whom 'he' fought and destroyed) is the Asteroid Belt.
Marduk, imo, might be one possible candidate for the title The King of Terror, Death being the other one.
See below.
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Post by LorrB on Apr 27, 2012 9:37:56 GMT 9.5
…The comet, at the first of the two meetings reconstructed in Worlds in Collision, touched the earth with its gaseous tail, and one of the first signs of the encounter was a rain of fine, rusty pigment. The world turned red. “All the waters that were in the river,” reads the Book of Exodus, “were turned to blood.” The Manuscript Quiche’ of the Mayas tells of the rivers turning to blood, and so does the Papyrus Ipuwer of the Egyptians. Then, as the story continues in the Visuddhi-Magga of the Buddhists, the fine dust turned to coarse dust, “and then fine sand, and then coarse sand, and then grit, stones, up to boulders as large... as mighty trees on the hilltops.”
And with the shower of meteorites the earth stopped turning.
It came to rest so faced to the sun that a long night, darkened by the cosmic refuse sweeping in from interplanetary space, fell on Europe, Africa, the Americas, and the valleys of the Euphrates and the Indus. The Babylonians, the tribes of the Sudan, the Finns, the Greeks, the Peruvians, and the American Indians all have traditions of a long night accompanying a catastrophe which the earth did not survive. Further east, the Iranians saw the sun suspended several days in the sky. In china, it is said that in the reign of the Emperor Yahou the sun did not set for a number of days and all the forests burned. www.tmgnow.com/repository/secret/velikovsky.html
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Post by paul on Apr 27, 2012 9:39:09 GMT 9.5
.... I think Marduk was a comet (or planet) .... I suggest that one of the keys to understanding mythology is recognising that humanoid gods are also labeled by their supposed origins. Hence the Holy Arch is An/On (TMH) who is supposed by the Egyptians to have come from the pole star - the central point of the arch of the heavens. Even today it is common to refer to an immigrant by the country of origin. E.g. Hey Irish! With this key much of Hindu mythology can be separated into accounts of heavenly bodies and accounts of their counterparts on Earth.
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Post by LorrB on Apr 27, 2012 9:40:49 GMT 9.5
We suppose that if the earth stopped turning it would destroy itself, as HG Wells imagined it would when his “man who could work miracles” commanded the same act. Our idea of momentum - and the Law of Gravitation, about which Dr. Velikovsky has much to say - leads us to assume that the earth’s surface would fly onward in the direction of its rotation and be torn apart. A great global catastrophe, with seas and continents changing their places,is in fact described in the traditions of mankind. The world gave every sign to its inhabitants of being on the brink of destruction.
Approached by the body of the comet, the earth was forced out of its regular motion; a major shock convulsed its entire surface. The major shift in the atmosphere caused by the approach of the comet and the stasis of the planet, itself produced hurricanes of enormous velocity and force. “The face of the earth changed,” writes Dr. Velikovsky, summarizing the Mayan account from the Manuscript Troano, “mountains collapsed, other mountains grew and rose over the onrushing cataract of water driven from the oceanic spaces, numberless rivers lost their beds, and a wild tornado moved through the debris descending from the sky.” The human population was decimated and many species of animals perished entirely. The surface of the earth burst. Three Mexican manuscripts tell how everywhere in the Western hemisphere new mountains came into being. New volcanos opened and fissures in the flat land threw forth fire and smoke and liquid basalt. The rivers steamed and the sea boiled. The Zendi-Avesta of the Persians says that a star made the sea boil.
The Polynesians say that a star caused new islands to appear.
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