|
Post by LorrB on Dec 1, 2011 13:09:03 GMT 9.5
Chokmah and Binah are featured upon the columns... how old is the Cabala? And this Certificate is fom 1891 - long before the so called New Age. Also compare the symbolism of Freemasonry with that of the Roscicrucians, the Alchemists, Sufism... and the list goes on. Interesting image above. We could start lots of theads using that.
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Dec 1, 2011 13:10:04 GMT 9.5
Labor to Refreshment (and Refreshment to Labor again)... might be one of them
|
|
|
Post by brandt on Dec 1, 2011 13:41:34 GMT 9.5
Can we move from speculation to evidence? The diploma is attractive but I have seen borrowed iconography on several pieces of paper. The proof is in the pudding.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Dec 1, 2011 15:52:35 GMT 9.5
Maybe it has been that way from the beginning or it is a relatively recent phenomenon stemming from new age ideas hoping that Masonry was something that it was not. As I recall there was a lot of discussion in the 18th century about the purpose of Masonry. Perhaps the London brethren of 1717 were not what they thought. Still the EA TB indicates some knowledge of the destiny of Earth humans, so all is not lost.
|
|
|
Post by Henka on Dec 1, 2011 16:41:52 GMT 9.5
Maybe it has been that way from the beginning or it is a relatively recent phenomenon stemming from new age ideas hoping that Masonry was something that it was not. As I recall there was a lot of discussion in the 18th century about the purpose of Masonry. Perhaps the London brethren of 1717 were not what they thought. Still the EA TB indicates some knowledge of the destiny of Earth humans, so all is not lost. That is because écossais(e) Masonry went to the continent with the Jacobites. That's when my people came to America.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Dec 1, 2011 18:41:44 GMT 9.5
Arguably Scottish Masonry is in better shape, but still I see little progress in the recovery of the genuine secrets.
|
|
|
Post by stewart edwards on Dec 1, 2011 21:34:55 GMT 9.5
As I recall there was a lot of discussion in the 18th century about the purpose of Masonry. Perhaps the London brethren of 1717 were not what they thought. Still the EA TB indicates some knowledge of the destiny of Earth humans, so all is not lost. That is because écossais(e) Masonry went to the continent with the Jacobites. That's when my people came to America. Indeed. Now, while I say this a little tongue in cheek, consider the possibility, even though many a mason finds it uncomfortable, but just consider it for a moment - it is becoming increasingly accepted that the bagpipes originated in Thebes 4000 ish years ago. Just saying. ;D
|
|
|
Post by brandt on Dec 1, 2011 22:44:21 GMT 9.5
How would anyone know if progress towards the genuine secrets is being made? Wouldn't we have to know what those secrets were/are?
|
|
|
Post by stewart edwards on Dec 2, 2011 4:39:47 GMT 9.5
Arguably Scottish Masonry is in better shape, but still I see little progress in the recovery of the genuine secrets. Paul, have you considered the possibility that due to the success of darkness in penetrating the masonic world and rendering it a little "lost" in this regard, that things/sponsorship/however you look at it, may have moved on and due to the limited amount of will in the masonic world to recover itself, that the masonic world may simply be left to be a worthy social organisation, with the real work having been passed on to where it will be sought and found? Empires rise and fall, history is full of such cycles. Perhaps masonry has had its day in this regard (while retaining a formidable and valuable place socially)?
|
|
|
Post by paul on Dec 2, 2011 5:29:05 GMT 9.5
How would anyone know if progress towards the genuine secrets is being made? Wouldn't we have to know what those secrets were/are? One of the symptoms of progress would be provisional descriptions of some of the matters concerned. We can see a parallel situation in the identification of the ancient landmarks - competing lists. So far there has been no public attempt by Grand Lodges to identify the subject matter of the genuine secrets. This could even be a reprehensible situation.
|
|
|
Post by Henka on Dec 2, 2011 6:05:53 GMT 9.5
Arguably Scottish Masonry is in better shape, but still I see little progress in the recovery of the genuine secrets. Paul, have you considered the possibility that due to the success of darkness in penetrating the masonic world and rendering it a little "lost" in this regard, that things/sponsorship/however you look at it, may have moved on and due to the limited amount of will in the masonic world to recover itself, that the masonic world may simply be left to be a worthy social organisation, with the real work having been passed on to where it will be sought and found? Empires rise and fall, history is full of such cycles. Perhaps masonry has had its day in this regard (while retaining a formidable and valuable place socially)? Have you considered that you are wrong? Do you not think that Masonry is an individual journey, rather than the system of Grand Lodges that you seem to be fixated on. True Masonry is internal.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Dec 2, 2011 6:50:26 GMT 9.5
...sponsorship/however you look at it, may have moved on and due to the limited amount of will in the masonic world to recover itself.. At the macro level, I would be surprised if there is much attachment to the current outer form of Masonry. New wine in new bottles. At the micro level, however, individual brethren still attract inner sponsors of some note. This however is generally because of what the brethren are inwardly rather than their membership of human organisations. Still, the natural laws operate anywhere, including in Masonic lodges, so that right relationship and right actions do attract blessings from on high
|
|
|
Post by stewartedwards on Dec 2, 2011 6:51:41 GMT 9.5
Have you considered that you are wrong? All the time Henka, in fact until about 5 years ago (ish) I used to tag every single one of my posts on masonic forums with "I could be wrong" but stopped doing it under advisement from some of your brothers Indeed Henka indeed. Practicalities Henka, the mysteries will find their way to those who seek and who are ready regardless. But Grand Lodges are a part of this world and the cure to many things may be found in the grand lodges reilluminating. I hope that they can do it. Absolutely. Perhaps you can get more of your lodge initiated brothers to realise this.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Dec 2, 2011 6:59:06 GMT 9.5
..Do you not think that Masonry is an individual journey, ... The individual journey, at some point, brings the brother to the point where group work is possible - in the planetary context. This is rarely seen in modern Masonry.
|
|
|
Post by Henka on Dec 2, 2011 8:21:22 GMT 9.5
..Do you not think that Masonry is an individual journey, ... The individual journey, at some point, brings the brother to the point where group work is possible - in the planetary context. This is rarely seen in modern Masonry. I suspect it was unknown in ancient Masonry as well.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Dec 2, 2011 8:36:47 GMT 9.5
So they too had lost at least some of the genuine secrets?
Fortunately aspects of the group work secrets are not too hard to recover.
|
|
|
Post by brandt on Dec 2, 2011 13:33:55 GMT 9.5
What are these "genuine secrets?" If you have a map you will nee to know first where you are and then you need to know where you are trying to get to. What are these secrets? Do you know them?
|
|
|
Post by Henka on Dec 2, 2011 14:26:38 GMT 9.5
So they too had lost at least some of the genuine secrets? Fortunately aspects of the group work secrets are not too hard to recover. So, is it your belief that the genuine secrets have to do with some sort of communion with planetary energies?
|
|
|
Post by brandt on Dec 2, 2011 14:28:17 GMT 9.5
Clearly our dear Brother Paul is in possession of these secrets, or is at least better prepared than others to understand how we are wrong.
|
|
|
Post by Henka on Dec 2, 2011 14:28:47 GMT 9.5
That is because écossais(e) Masonry went to the continent with the Jacobites. That's when my people came to America. Indeed. Now, while I say this a little tongue in cheek, consider the possibility, even though many a mason finds it uncomfortable, but just consider it for a moment - it is becoming increasingly accepted that the bagpipes originated in Thebes 4000 ish years ago. Just saying. ;D Why would this make "many a Mason" uncomfortable?
|
|