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Post by paul on Oct 6, 2011 18:57:25 GMT 9.5
I recall when I first understood about reincarnation. It was quite a relief that I did not have to accomplish everything in one life.
(Looking back, I see that I thought only in the vaguest terms about what work I was supposed to accomplish.)
So is escaping reincarnation our objective?
How will we know whether we have done enough of the right things to qualify?
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Post by stewartedwards on Oct 6, 2011 20:07:59 GMT 9.5
Ok Paul as you requested, not sure that there is anything more that I want to say, if only because people must be bored hearing it again and again, but as you asked I recall when I first understood about reincarnation. It was quite a relief that I did not have to accomplish everything in one life. Indeed. With me I guess in the run up to the millennium I had hoped others would do it as I did not consider myself good enough. Then the millennium came and went with me being a little disappointed that the pyramid ceremony was cancelled by the Egyptian government. I plodded on finding my way without giving to much thought to my purpose, for I had so so much work to do on myself. Then one month it hit me like a bolt in the chest that I had actually done it, through simply plodding on and inadvertently inspiring others (in masonry, sport and in children) along the way. It was that month or so that it all hit home as people from each facet of my life came to me to tell me. I found it overwhelming and didnt really know how to deal with it. Anyhow I then knew that I had to get my first batch of books completed and in one case written fast which I did. I then nearly died, and found out that I had done enough and was welcome to leave this life. Though to be fair I have known since the middle of the last decade that I could leave the reincarnation cycle (I just knew). And I was ready to walk over but was asked to consider returning, and while no pressure was put on me and it was a completely free choice, some requests are hard to say no to, so I came back and felt fresh as a daisy. I dont know, I was simply relieved when I knew that I could, I knew that I was on my way home. Well for me:- 1. I just knew. You can call this arrogance, mental illness, God, whatever you like, I simply knew. 2. This was then reaffirmed to me by at the same time a lot of good things happening in the masonic world, winning a trophy in multisport for inspiration (remember I am over 300lbs in weight) and kids wanting to nominate me for an honour, and others in a separate set of circumstances thanking me for what I had done for them. While I had trouble dealing with all of this simultaneous peer recognition, it did make me take notice that I had inspired hearts and made a big difference in several fields. 3. But I still didnt fully believe it until I got an infection in a cut on my ear which nearly saw the end of me. One day when my body was physically closing down on me in hospital I just wanted to know if I had done enough, and in my white light tunnel, gates of heaven, judgment scenes, it was confirmed to me that I had, and when I returned I was remarkably sprite and better. Worried the hospital consultant no end though and it lead to more antibiotics and near facial surgery (which I avoided at the last minute)!!!! The important point to note is that I never intended to do this (not consciously anyway). I simply woke up one day having had enough of my life being so bad that I decided that I would follow the itch in my heart for I knew that there was something in life that I was missing, but I did not know what it was. And a dozen years later here we are today. Hope that makes some sense. Any serious questions ask away. |
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Post by paul on Oct 6, 2011 20:48:18 GMT 9.5
I know several people who, being quite ill including through child birth, were clear that they could choose whether to continue this human life. I do not recall any of them saying that they had no need of reincarnation. It seems to me that even when reincarnation is not necessary, many do decide to reincarnate in order to assist the human race or their group. I am not sure that I have seen a genuine human (soul formed with the human swarm) who has reached the end of the reincarnation cycle. Visitors, however, may exist quite outside that cycle e.g as portrayed in The Sirian Experiments en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sirian_ExperimentsIt is perhaps worth noting that incarnations may occur in parallel rather than in series. This may result in bleed-through such as in peculiarly precise dreams that have nothing to do with this time-line. |
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Post by tamrin on Oct 7, 2011 4:58:00 GMT 9.5
I am not sure that I have seen a genuine human (soul formed with the human swarm) who has reached the end of the reincarnation cycle. Visitors, however, may exist quite outside that cycle e.g as portrayed in The Sirian Experiments en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sirian_Experiments Please specify what you mean by "human swarm." Also please specify when you are relying on science fiction as a source (not everyone clicks on links). |
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Post by paul on Oct 7, 2011 5:27:47 GMT 9.5
"human swarm" is my shorthand for the event of formation of groups of human souls. Souls may not be unique to humans.
Publishing material as fiction allows readers to consider ideas without using the filter of consistency with existing beliefs.
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Post by LorrB on Oct 7, 2011 7:18:07 GMT 9.5
So is escaping reincarnation our objective? I don't think so. I rather think that will happen in its own good time. To want to escape without taking everyone else with you seems to be a bit on the selfish side also. I also rather suspect that the ultimate test might be knowing that one can 'escape' but chooses not to. Is this the great sacrifice we hear about with regards to those who are Masters of Life? In Masonic terms, who are those that are purposely stationed on the cliffs waiting to help others up? |
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Post by tamrin on Oct 7, 2011 21:46:09 GMT 9.5
"human swarm" is my shorthand for the event of formation of groups of human souls. Souls may not be unique to humans.
Publishing material as fiction allows readers to consider ideas without using the filter of consistency with existing beliefs. While there is one spirit uniting all that is, every organic system has a soul (including our hypothetical, transcendental liver cell). BTW, Your shorthand may somehow be meaningful to you, but you are presumably trying to communicate with others here (and even your explanation is vague - to what "event" do you refer?). As for treating published fiction as fact, I suggest you often confuse the symbolic with the literal, as was discussed on another thread. |
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Post by paul on Oct 8, 2011 8:12:14 GMT 9.5
... While there is one spirit uniting all that is, every organic system has a soul ... That is certainly not my understanding and of course Blavatsky was notorious for stating that not all humans have souls. "We elbow soulless men and women at every step in life,.." Indeed the term "soulless" is commonplace in English expression. Do you have some basis for the assertion? |
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Post by tamrin on Oct 8, 2011 12:42:33 GMT 9.5
...While there is one spirit uniting all that is, every organic system has a soul ... Systems Theory. |
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Post by acrogers on Oct 8, 2011 15:27:10 GMT 9.5
We're talking about escapig reincarnation, but is not escape the wrong word? Surely we should be speaking of graduating rather than escaping? If earth is a school for humans (and I don't think many of us would dispute that), then surely we transcend the wheel of life by graduating, i.e. working out our karma and then leaving.
However, although we don't have to achieve our destiny in one lifetime, one should resist the temptation to laziness I presume. The Cathars knew that if one was initiated as a Parfait(e), Perfected One, and lived the life it entailed to the full then by doing so one did complete one's karma and, to use familiar terminology return home to The Source.
Mind you one might volunteer, having done that to return from time to time to help a struggling humanity, for which one would probably receive little thanks and much misunderstanding--humans being what they are.
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Post by paul on Oct 8, 2011 15:34:17 GMT 9.5
I am not sure systems theory requires the existence of a soul. For example systems are based on groupness rather than soul-itude
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Post by tamrin on Oct 8, 2011 17:27:33 GMT 9.5
I am not sure systems theory requires the existence of a soul. For example systems are based on groupness rather than soul-itude Without an encompassing "soul" there is no system, just a bunch of parts bits and pieces. |
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Post by paul on Oct 8, 2011 17:40:55 GMT 9.5
Without an encompassing "soul" there is no system, just a bunch of parts bits and pieces. What about the oceans? It is certainly a system and has organic qualities but does it have a soul? And what is the role of spirit? |
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Post by paul on Oct 8, 2011 17:46:35 GMT 9.5
... Mind you one might volunteer, having done that to return from time to time to help a struggling humanity, for which one would probably receive little thanks and much misunderstanding--humans being what they are. I think that is the bottom line. Many of those able to escape reincarnation chose long ago to re-enter another reincarnational cycle and it may not be an option to leave for quite some time. Further, if incarnations are parallel, then decisions may need to be taken outside of time and space. |
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Post by tamrin on Oct 8, 2011 18:02:56 GMT 9.5
Without an encompassing "soul" there is no system, just a bunch of parts bits and pieces.
And what is the role of spirit?We colloquially talk of the "spirit of a place," which more accurately might be said to be its soul (albeit, not as tightly knit as in the soul of a organism). I'm inclined to believe such systems fall short of organic systems but, unlike purely mechanical systems, they do possess a vague soul (akin to that of a congregation) and perhaps even a degree of mentation. As for the spirit, it has no "role," it IS. It is the one life of which all sub-systems are expressions, as with the tendrils on a vine, lights on a cord, segments of a fractal, or parts of a hologram. |
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Post by tamrin on Oct 8, 2011 19:23:49 GMT 9.5
Further, if incarnations are parallel, then decisions may need to be taken outside of time and space. Or at another level. What if "reincarnation" meant being recalled in the mind of our "god"? |
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Post by paul on Oct 8, 2011 20:06:48 GMT 9.5
...What if "reincarnation" meant being recalled in the mind of our "god"? Would you like to give an example of how that works over several lives? |
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Post by tamrin on Oct 8, 2011 20:26:44 GMT 9.5
...What if "reincarnation" meant being recalled in the mind of our "god"? Flowers dying, after their season and dropping from a tree, and new buds appearing each spring. |
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Post by paul on Oct 9, 2011 6:07:37 GMT 9.5
I do hope that the human is expected to progress rather than repeat the same state.
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Post by tamrin on Oct 9, 2011 6:45:28 GMT 9.5
I do hope that the human is expected to progress rather than repeat the same state. That may be a vain hope. Suppose we are indeed organic systems within organic systems (or souls within souls) and that ultimately all is spirit / all is "thought." What hope we would have of either repeating the same state or of progress beyond this state is at best a metaphor for the possibility of an encompassing soul recalling and perhaps modifying its memory of us (our formula, if you will). Perhaps our "formula" will eventually appeal to an even "higher" soul and will be applied to encompass and animate a soul at a level "higher" than that in which we currently exist. Ultimately, however, what does it matter? Life, the One Life, goes on and that is who we really are. What hope we have (if hope we need) resides in our conscious identity with the immortal spirit. |
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