|
Post by tamrin on Sept 26, 2011 9:47:53 GMT 9.5
This is an interesting topic.
For example, the desk at which I am sitting is composed of wood fibre and laminate. It has a very low level intelligence and as I look at it, I have so far detected neither consciousness nor means of transcendence.
Would you like to specify the types of entity to which your statement may be applied? If every visible unit, animate or inanimate, is composed of Mind matter, then talking to a car or a tea cup should produce similar results as to prayer and/or meditation.... just operating at a different level. I suggest we consider Systems Theory (see Capra’s Turning Point) for some insight as to what is a hallmark of mentation and whether or not it can properly be applied to inanimate, composite entities. At the most minute level, matter appears and disappears from the energetic source of being — Some persist. This persistence requires a degree of equilibrium within dynamic parameters and implies memory and, by further implication, mind.
Further along , this self-organization is evident in atoms, molecules and crystals and a case could be put for these having a degree of mentation. Thus while a crystal demonstrates “mind” by maintaining itself, by growth and by reproduction, a brute rock simply decomposes and does not demonstrate any “organic” qualities. In the later case only its constituent matter exhibit evidence of mind.
Still further along, a car has been artificially assembled and does not exhibit self-organization, self-maintenance, functional displacements, growth or reproduction. The only “mind” present in its maintenance comes from without: “Mind you,” that mind will benefit greatly from a thorough immersion and familiarity in the subject of car maintenance (as described in Pirsig’s Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance).
Still further along, we find that Earth itself exhibits many “organic” functions (see Lovelock’s Gaia) and this brings us another step further to the notion of a universal mind being a reasonable hypothesis.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Sept 26, 2011 9:54:56 GMT 9.5
So which sorts of entities have "a method whereby consciousness may transcend or descend"?
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Sept 26, 2011 11:24:18 GMT 9.5
I'm still thinking about how our 'lowly' liver cells can kill us, even though we are their god.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2011 17:46:21 GMT 9.5
So which sorts of entities have "a method whereby consciousness may transcend or descend"? Phillip, no one is this dumb. He who may not be named must be having fun trying to yank your chain and take you round in circles.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2011 17:46:59 GMT 9.5
I'm still thinking about how our 'lowly' liver cells can kill us, even though we are their god. Cancer.
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Sept 27, 2011 9:00:03 GMT 9.5
So which sorts of entities have "a method whereby consciousness may transcend or descend"? Phillip, no one is this dumb. He who may not be named must be having fun trying to yank your chain and take you round in circles. Knights Kadosh
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Sept 27, 2011 9:05:09 GMT 9.5
I'm still thinking about how our 'lowly' liver cells can kill us, even though we are their god. Cancer. Correct. So if cancer can bring it's god (us) down, can we bring our God down?
|
|
|
Post by paul on Sept 27, 2011 9:20:32 GMT 9.5
[...can we bring our God down? So how does our God (the solar logos) deal with any tardy or non-cooperative kingdoms? Surely He(?) has anticipated or even experienced such situations. Obvious strategies might be: - divide the tardy kingdom into sheep and goats and deal with them separately, e.g. give the goats to a neighbouring system - introduce some trained individuals (bell wethers) to accelerate learning - make an example of some recalcitrant members - cull the kingdom to a known core (in an ark) and restart - change the operating climate to force faster change - introduce upgraded models of the relevant species Perhaps all of the above have been used.
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Sept 27, 2011 9:59:50 GMT 9.5
I remember an incidence in my own life (where I am god) and I was looking after a vacant house for someone. I visited one week to find the small bathroom over run with millipedes. They were squirming out from behind mirrors, I couldn't even put a foot on the floor without first clearing a space with the broom. It was like something out of an Alfred Hitchcock movie. Not wishing to harm living creatures I carefully shovelled as many as I could into a bucket and took them up the back of the large garden to live in peace After an hour of doing this and I was down to the last few who were in the shower alcove, I lost patience and turned the tap on to wash them down the drain. I remember saying "sorry guys" as I did it. It then occurred to me that God may do the same thing with us. It was a real ah-ha moment for me.
|
|
|
Post by tamrin on Sept 27, 2011 12:59:36 GMT 9.5
So which sorts of entities have "a method whereby consciousness may transcend or descend"? For what it's worth here: Sentient beings comprising subsystems within encompassing "greater" systems and having sub-systems of their own.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Sept 27, 2011 13:13:12 GMT 9.5
So is an ant capable of transcendence?
|
|
|
Post by tamrin on Sept 27, 2011 13:15:04 GMT 9.5
Seems Smithee was right.
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Sept 27, 2011 13:49:04 GMT 9.5
So which sorts of entities have "a method whereby consciousness may transcend or descend"? For what it's worth here: Sentient beings comprising subsystems within encompassing "greater" systems and having sub-systems of their own. That is everybody! Not a soul will be lost ...
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Sept 27, 2011 13:49:42 GMT 9.5
... or an ant.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Sept 27, 2011 14:56:26 GMT 9.5
I have not observed any transcendence in ants.
Cats are interesting as occasionally another entity may use the body, but I doubt that can really be counted as transcendence.
I have observed the process of transcendence in some hundreds of humans. It is often aspired to and is taught in some traditions.
Transcendence in humans allows the normal limits of knowing to be exceeded.
|
|
|
Post by tamrin on Sept 27, 2011 16:46:02 GMT 9.5
I have not observed any transcendence in ants. I'm not surprised. Social insects such as ants, bees and termites present among the clearest instances of transcendence. Consider Eugene Marais' classic work, The Soul of the Ant.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Sept 27, 2011 17:38:08 GMT 9.5
So are individual ants not sentient beings?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2011 17:51:02 GMT 9.5
I have not observed any transcendence in ants. I'm not surprised. Social insects such as ants, bees and termites present among the clearest instances of transcendence. Consider Eugene Marais' classic work, The Soul of the Ant. This is too funny.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2011 17:51:55 GMT 9.5
So are individual ants not sentient beings? He who may not be named is trying to yank your chain again Phillip.
|
|
|
Post by tamrin on Sept 27, 2011 21:47:03 GMT 9.5
So are individual ants not sentient beings? They express the One Life within their capacity, as do we. If we can acknowledge sentience or mentation in minerals, it is obvious we can do no less with a complex creature like an ant.
|
|