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Post by paul on Nov 12, 2011 6:04:43 GMT 9.5
We did, once think and understood in symbols, think cuneiform or the egyptian system,.... In both cases, the tradition is that the writing was invented by the sky gods. If so, the use of symbols was chosen for the humans, not necessarily because humans thought in symbols but perhaps because the symbols had direct associations with everyday objects and therefore were easier to remember. |
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Post by azaziel on Nov 12, 2011 6:18:55 GMT 9.5
We did, once think and understood in symbols, think cuneiform or the egyptian system,.... In both cases, the tradition is that the writing was invented by the sky gods. If so, the use of symbols was chosen for the humans, not necessarily because humans thought in symbols but perhaps because the symbols had direct associations with everyday objects and therefore were easier to remember. Me thinks, you over think some things, remember Genesis, the "gods" made people, then along came Yahweh with his science experiment called "Adam", me I am the other people  simple |
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Post by paul on Nov 12, 2011 7:59:55 GMT 9.5
.... then along came Yahweh with his science experiment called "Adam", In the Sumerian version Ea (Ja?) had quite a lot of help including from the female gods who carried the first experiments. Possibly the Jewish account over-played the role of the god of Abraham's fathers. |
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Post by azaziel on Nov 13, 2011 6:47:54 GMT 9.5
.... then along came Yahweh with his science experiment called "Adam", In the Sumerian version Ea (Ja?) had quite a lot of help including from the female gods who carried the first experiments. Possibly the Jewish account over-played the role of the god of Abraham's fathers. Getting back to original topic, maybe it should be, what does freemasonry teach, that to me is far more important |
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Post by Henka on Nov 13, 2011 7:23:34 GMT 9.5
Ea and YHVH aren't the same god.
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Post by paul on Nov 13, 2011 7:35:46 GMT 9.5
Ea and YHVH aren't the same god. That could be an interesting topic to explore. |
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Post by paul on Nov 13, 2011 7:59:41 GMT 9.5
..... what does freemasonry teach... One of the first things Masonry teaches is to stand erect with the feet in the first regular step. This has a significant effect on the body energy flows (and therefore consciousness) while the position is held. |
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Post by azaziel on Nov 13, 2011 9:07:09 GMT 9.5
Ea and YHVH aren't the same god. That could be an interesting topic to explore. Okay, please start |
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Post by paul on Nov 13, 2011 15:16:33 GMT 9.5
..... Getting back to original topic, maybe it should be, what does freemasonry teach.... The teaching is commonplace ethics - underpinned by social gatherings of the brethren. The ritual, hopefully knows more than Masonry teaches. For example, why is the system of morality veiled in allegory? Is the morality not the same as the ethical principles taught there? |
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Post by azaziel on Nov 13, 2011 16:51:11 GMT 9.5
For example, why is the system of morality veiled in allegory? Is the morality not the same as the ethical principles taught there?
Come now, you know as well as I that that pecuilar system, words change in meaning, so what it means today is different to what it meant a few hundred years ago,
and BTW, morality and ethics are not the same
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Post by paul on Nov 13, 2011 19:14:01 GMT 9.5
Actually Mackey in The Symbolism of Freemasonry (1882) on p10 says: "The definition of Freemasonry that it is "a SCIENCE of MORALITY, veiled in allegory, and illustrated by symbols", has been so often quoted, that, were it not for its beauty, it would become wearisome"
That may indicate that "peculiar system" is an English replacement of "peculiar science".
Now we know that the point of science is to produce great effects easily. If there is such a science of morality it may well be veiled from the unworthy - to prevent the skills being used improperly.
These days Masonic Science is a label commonly used to signify nothing. In 20 years of esoteric Masonry the nearest I have found to such a science being taught is a brother who taught theoretical Kabbalah in AMORC.
There are however traces of the science - for example the use of knocks.
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Post by azaziel on Nov 14, 2011 5:33:15 GMT 9.5
Actually Mackey in The Symbolism of Freemasonry (1882) on p10 says: "The definition of Freemasonry that it is "a SCIENCE of MORALITY, veiled in allegory, and illustrated by symbols", has been so often quoted, that, were it not for its beauty, it would become wearisome" That may indicate that "peculiar system" is an English replacement of "peculiar science". Now we know that the point of science is to produce great effects easily. If there is such a science of morality it may well be veiled from the unworthy - to prevent the skills being used improperly. These days Masonic Science is a label commonly used to signify nothing. In 20 years of esoteric Masonry the nearest I have found to such a science being taught is a brother who taught theoretical Kabbalah in AMORC. There are however traces of the science - for example the use of knocks. Not a fan of Mackey, don't agree with a lot of what he wrote |
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Post by paul on Nov 14, 2011 5:35:18 GMT 9.5
I think in this case Mackey is just reporting a ritual fact
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Post by LorrB on Nov 14, 2011 9:17:27 GMT 9.5
words change in meaning, so what it means today is different to what it meant a few hundred years ago, "Suffer little children to come unto Me" What damage have these words done over time? 'Suffer' also means 'Allow' .. yet the message has come down thru the ages to mean.. you must suffer, feel bad, experience bad effects or hardships. Suffer if you want to get to heaven... or if you don't suffer now, you will later and for all eternity, according to some ministers. Whereas the message was "Come, little children" |
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Post by LorrB on Nov 16, 2011 7:11:03 GMT 9.5
Getting back to 'peculiar system of morality' - it popped into my mind last night when we were holding an informal Q & A sessions with our EA's.
I was discussing the good men made better bit.. and told them tht when I joined Freemasonry I thought I was 'alright' - patient, generous, kind, caring, etc etc. But then as I progressed in Freemasonry I start to notice cracks and flaws in my personality, I actually thought that I was going backwards.
It took quite some while for me to realise that I was indeed progressing in the craft, and that progression entailed a change in understanding of the principles of what is right or wrong. Standards were lifted and what was alright previously was starting to fall short of the new mark. Now that is peculiar.
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Post by paul on Nov 16, 2011 10:57:37 GMT 9.5
So what sort of differences are there between the before and after states? Are the actions different, or the thoughts or perhaps the intents?
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Post by LorrB on Nov 16, 2011 11:34:03 GMT 9.5
For me the before state could be put down to being raised well and meeting the expectations of society, using one's natural talents. Responses were probably reactions as much as anything. Later, action more that reaction came to the fore and intent became much more important. I could make things happen rather than allowing things to happen. With that realisation came the 'burden' of responsibility. Thoughts teeter a bit between the old me and the new me, still  |
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Post by azaziel on Nov 16, 2011 17:12:48 GMT 9.5
words change in meaning, so what it means today is different to what it meant a few hundred years ago, "Suffer little children to come unto Me" What damage have these words done over time? 'Suffer' also means 'Allow' .. yet the message has come down thru the ages to mean.. you must suffer, feel bad, experience bad effects or hardships. Suffer if you want to get to heaven... or if you don't suffer now, you will later and for all eternity, according to some ministers. Whereas the message was "Come, little children" It would seem we agree on this |
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Post by azaziel on Nov 16, 2011 17:13:37 GMT 9.5
I think in this case Mackey is just reporting a ritual fact Again, I see it differently, it was his own view, not mine |
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Post by azaziel on Nov 16, 2011 17:16:54 GMT 9.5
Getting back to ' peculiar system of morality' - it popped into my mind last night when we were holding an informal Q & A sessions with our EA's. I was discussing the good men made better bit.. and told them tht when I joined Freemasonry I thought I was 'alright' - patient, generous, kind, caring, etc etc. But then as I progressed in Freemasonry I start to notice cracks and flaws in my personality, I actually thought that I was going backwards. It took quite some while for me to realise that I was indeed progressing in the craft, and that progression entailed a change in understanding of the principles of what is right or wrong. Standards were lifted and what was alright previously was starting to fall short of the new mark. Now that is peculiar. Peculair originally meant , special or restricted, so it would be a restricted system of morality etc, and make good men better, is just a by product of masonry, not its reason for being and we all have flaws and cracks, its how we handle them that determines us |
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simple
