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Post by paul on Sept 16, 2011 5:58:22 GMT 9.5
Non-Masons have a sense of mystery about Masonry - as if there is some important knowledge there. But when the new initiate has settled down in the lodge, and seen the ritual a few times, there is often a sense of bewilderment. Where is the knowledge, where the mystery?
So what does Masonry know other than the outer form of its rituals?
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Post by LorrB on Sept 16, 2011 8:46:18 GMT 9.5
Non-Masons have a sense of mystery about Masonry - as if there is some important knowledge there. But when the new initiate has settled down in the lodge, and seen the ritual a few times, there is often a sense of bewilderment. Where is the knowledge, where the mystery? So what does Masonry know other than the outer form of its rituals? Non-Masons sense of mystery about Masonry is most likely attributable to the sssshh-sshhh stuff that Freemasons go on about. a sense of mystery about Masonry - as if there is some important knowledge there. For Masons, I think that might be a result of an inner recognition and subsequent attraction to a pattern they perceive as perfect. The Masonic pattern dovetails quite nicely with the esoteric teachings of Christianity, Judaism (Kabbala) and Islam (Sufism). I guess when we look beyond 'the veils' of religions and belief systems they are all telling us a similar story.
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Post by paul on Sept 16, 2011 8:52:41 GMT 9.5
Those familiar with the Ring Cycle will understand the significance of the Rhine.
Long ago I drove towards the Rhine and about 30 miles away could feel its spiritual power but when I arrived at its banks I could feel none.
Similarly for many with Masonry.
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Post by LorrB on Sept 16, 2011 9:15:52 GMT 9.5
Good analogy.
I feel the same about countries.
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Post by paul on Sept 16, 2011 9:18:38 GMT 9.5
So how does that occur?
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Post by LorrB on Sept 16, 2011 10:01:27 GMT 9.5
Probaby several reasons... One could be that the idealised mental picture is not matched by the reality.
(Examples.... as a teenager I used to 'swoon' over a very famous and very handsome film star. As an adult I discovered that he was a mean and nasty person.)
The energy pattern of the country is diluted by the mindset of its inhabitants.
(Democratic Government, Of the People, For the People, By the People - is oftentimes bought down by the people)
There might be individual negative karmic bonds.
(You try to help a stranger once and suffer consequences because of it, so you then decide never to help a stranger in difficulty again).
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Post by paul on Sept 16, 2011 10:37:28 GMT 9.5
Have you ever noticed that humans from afar are often much more attractive than closeup?
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Post by LorrB on Sept 16, 2011 11:05:21 GMT 9.5
Have you ever noticed that humans from afar are often much more attractive than closeup? .... ... but sometimes the light in the eyes can only be seen close up.
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Post by paul on Sept 26, 2011 13:10:11 GMT 9.5
I suspect that from afar it is easier to see the spiritual parts and that close up the persona is more obvious.
Perhaps Masonry is the same. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.
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Post by LorrB on Sept 26, 2011 16:51:53 GMT 9.5
I suspect that from afar it is easier to see the spiritual parts and that close up the persona is more obvious. Perhaps Masonry is the same. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. ... or tired.
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Post by paul on Oct 21, 2011 11:02:23 GMT 9.5
Generally it seems that conscious knowing is not much present in mainstream Masonry, but a lodge that is strong in brotherly love and reasonably strong in ritual can do much to magnetise those brethren seeking the Light.
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Post by azaziel on Nov 11, 2011 17:48:06 GMT 9.5
Masonry holds many secrets, one that I have come across, is that "we' used to think in symbols, but as modern humans we are losing this ability,
one of the things I am working on, is that a "circle' as a masonry symbol, shows, IMO, that SKI & HKT created or recreated masonry
all you need to do is understand the 1st and 2nd degree rituals to uncover this aspect
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Post by paul on Nov 11, 2011 17:55:49 GMT 9.5
I suspect that HAB at least is a symbolic construct and there seems no archeological evidence either for KS or his kingdom
If the widow has no name and no other value that producing HAB, why would we not be brothers of HAB rather than sons of an otherwise unknown widow?
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Post by azaziel on Nov 11, 2011 18:07:48 GMT 9.5
you can't have it both ways, either we are veiled in allegory etc, or we are not
Absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence
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Post by paul on Nov 11, 2011 19:12:03 GMT 9.5
That is perhaps a bit black and white. There may be historical events concealed within allegory. For example James the Just (brother of Jesus) was by some accounts thrown down from the walls of the temple and killed by a blow to the head with a fuller's club after which all work on the temple ceased. As an alternate and heretical form of Christianity, it may be that such a story could be modified and preserved in Masonry - consistent with some of the hypotheses in The Hiram Key. www.amazon.com/Hiram-Key-Pharaohs-Freemasonry-Discovery/dp/1931412758
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Post by azaziel on Nov 11, 2011 19:22:50 GMT 9.5
That is perhaps a bit black and white. There may be historical events concealed within allegory. For example James the Just (brother of Jesus) was by some accounts thrown down from the walls of the temple and killed by a blow to the head with a fuller's club after which all work on the temple ceased. As an alternate and heretical form of Christianity, it may be that such a story could be modified and preserved in Masonry - consistent with some of the hypotheses in The Hiram Key. www.amazon.com/Hiram-Key-Pharaohs-Freemasonry-Discovery/dp/1931412758I would suggest the authors of the Hiram Key, would probably like to edit that work now, possibly it is a bit Black & white, but surprisingly when it all boils down, the simpler the better and easier to understand, sometimes we make things more complex than they should be
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Post by paul on Nov 11, 2011 19:47:29 GMT 9.5
It rather seems to me that the traces of quite a lot of different groups can be found in Masonry. Each entered (perhaps to ensure survival) and encoded their message and intents into the rituals they found.
If so, there are many somewhat jumbled threads in Masonry.
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Post by azaziel on Nov 12, 2011 5:02:46 GMT 9.5
maybe Churchward was right, and freemasonry was the original religion of mankind, and we have overcomplicated it
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Post by paul on Nov 12, 2011 5:11:05 GMT 9.5
Churchward is pretty good and notes both a stellar and solar religion - presumably with different sources.
Traces of both could be argued to be present in Masonry.
As for over-complicating, I would suggest that the original practices are now largely reduced to symbolic re-enactments (e.g. the MM ritual and the HRA ritual) as the originators are long gone and few of their descendants (sons of) understand the original intent.
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Post by azaziel on Nov 12, 2011 5:21:11 GMT 9.5
Churchward is pretty good and notes both a stellar and solar religion - presumably with different sources. Traces of both could be argued to be present in Masonry. As for over-complicating, I would suggest that the original practices are now largely reduced to symbolic re-enactments (e.g. the MM ritual and the HRA ritual) as the originators are long gone and few of their descendants (sons of) understand the original intent. We did, once think and understood in symbols, think cuneiform or the egyptian system, all symbol based, it is we who are losing the ability to think in symbols, but more importantly to fully understand how to relate to those symbols
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