|
|
Post by LorrB on Jul 9, 2010 9:29:30 GMT 9.5
Results of homework (for coach). Omigosh... I had to read the piece about three times to try and even begin to understand just a little of it. In the end I decided to meditate on it. I often get insights that way. The first thing I noticed about Plato's divided line was that, turning it 90 degs and you have the dividing lines of the Tree of Life, which has its own four worlds or divisions. In descending order:
Atziluth (àÂöÄéìåÌú), or World of Emanation. On this level the light of the Ein Sof (Infinite Divine) radiates and is still united with its source. This supernal revelation therefore precludes the souls and Divine emanations in Atzilus from sensing their own existence.
Beri'ah (áÀÌøÄéàÈä) or World of Creation. On this level is the first concept of creatio ex nihilo however without any shape or form. This is also where the Highest Ranking Angels are to be found.[citation needed]
Yetzirah (éÀöÄéøÈä) or World of Formation. On this level the created being assumes shape and form.
Assiah (òÂùÄÒéÈÌä) or World of Action. On this level the creation is complete; however, it is still on a spiritual level. At a later stage there is the 'physical Assiah' comprising our physical Universe with all its creatures.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Worlds
When I tried to relate these coincidental lines to see if there was anything to it, I thought that a case could be argued for one being the mirror image of the other. The lowest of one was the highest of the other. RE: 'the soul passes out of hypotheses... '. How can you be sure that Plato's idea of the soul was correct? How many people today can describe 'a soul'. And what is the difference between 'a soul' and 'spirit'. At this later stage in my life I am wondering whether the spirit comes into matter with the soul, or whether spirit comes into to matter to build a soul. What is the temple we are building, eternal in the heaven, not made with hands? Re: .. mathematical reasoning - 'dianoia' where abstract mathematical objects such as geometric lines are discussed. I used the mosaic pavement to test this.. it came to me that if you want to 'dissolve our physical reality' you need only break the bond illustrated by the point at which any one of the four squares (two black, two white) meet. Four would resolve to three then no thing. ? Interesting to note that the pavement is bordered by triangles. Re: .. geometers use physical diagrams to describe the abstract objects they study.Fractal geometry explained to me how every can be different and the same all at the same time. An interactive site featuring the Mandelbrot Set fractal did this for me... it also 'demonstrated' the idea eternity to me. Loved it! |
|
|
|
Post by paul on Jul 9, 2010 9:52:18 GMT 9.5
>How can you be sure that Plato's idea of the soul was correct?
I seem to recall that Plato was an initiate in the mysteries hence should have had a practical knowledge of the soul and the inner worlds. Perhaps that is why he is still studied.
>whether the spirit comes into matter with the soul, or whether spirit comes into to matter to build a soul.
The soul is a transformer of high voltage spirit down to the range in which the persona can assimilate. Eventually the persona is purified and can assimilate spirit directly. The soul (solar angel) is then released
|
|
|
|
Post by paul on Jul 9, 2010 9:57:24 GMT 9.5
> Interesting to note that the pavement is bordered by triangles. This is probably a tiled representation of the Ptolemaic planetary movements around the temple in the heavens  |
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Jul 9, 2010 11:28:23 GMT 9.5
Did Plato, Socrates, Pythagoras et al all agree with each other on the nature of the soul?
|
|
|
|
Post by paul on Jul 9, 2010 12:44:55 GMT 9.5
You can see here that current Masonry draws heavily upon Plato: "According to Plato, the soul consists of three basic energies which animate human beings: Reason, Emotion, and Appetite. ......The psychic harmony of the soul, according to Plato, expresses itself in four cardinal virtues...... Justice. Wisdom, Courage and Temperance....Justice flows outward from this harmony, and is directed towards other people through acts of charity and kindness." www.essortment.com/all/platotheory_reym.htmBut this does not really allow us to penetrate the mysteries of nature. For that we need to analyse the inward human more carefully. "Based on an ancient Midrashic source (Bereishit Rabbah 14:9) Kabbalah and Hassidism speak of five levels or gradations of the soul: 1) Nefesh ("creature" -- the lower soul) relates to behavior and action. 2) Ruach ("spirit") relates to the emotions. 3) Neshamah ("inner soul") relates to the mind and intelligence. 4) Chayah ("living one") relates to the bridge between the first flash of conscious insight and its super-conscious origin. Experiencing awareness of God as continually crating the world. 5) Yecidah ("single one") relates to the ultimate unity of the soul in God, as manifest by pure faith, absolute devotion and the continuous readiness to sacrifice one's life for God." Equally of course one could refer to the one or more intelligent entities attached to each of the 7 (or 49) chakras. So the definition of soul depends rather upon whether you aspire to be a speculative or operative Freemason. The operative uses detailed namings to allow for precise operational statements. The speculative is free to name for convenience in exposition My own naming is based upon the intelligence that offers itself for service in the management of the upper mental structure (5.1 to 5.3) in most humans. Thus humans typically have a soul body and a solar angel (manasaputra) books.google.com.au/books?id=tgEM1XiI74kC&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=manasaputra&source=bl&ots=2bksZyEP1N&sig=suByKIItxW7ZOaFXuJdvTUKbGIU&hl=en&ei=_pQ2TNfcJM-LkAXNjLmsAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=manasaputra&f=false |
|
|
|
Post by coach on Jul 9, 2010 22:49:25 GMT 9.5
... I was being cheeky, trying to point out that one cannot leave anything outside the door of the lodge, there is no door. (I haven't graduated to Noesis yet.. but will persist). You can checkout any time you want; but you can never leave!  |
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Jul 12, 2010 9:08:18 GMT 9.5
 I see you are a tad cheeky too, coach. Like it. (I wish people considering suicide knew more about this subject - my heart goes out to them).
|
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Jul 17, 2010 16:18:20 GMT 9.5
Form of the Good = Jung's Archetypes?
|
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Jul 29, 2010 12:41:16 GMT 9.5
Coach, do you think reincarnation a possibility.. ? Among the ancient Greeks, Socrates, Pythagoras, and Plato may be numbered among those who made reincarnation an integral part of their teachings. At the end of his life, Socrates said, "I am confident that there truly is such a thing as living again, and that the living spring from the dead." Pythagoras claimed he could remember his past lives, and Plato presented detailed accounts of reincarnation in his major works.
www.crystalinks.com/reincarnation.html
If there is no permanent 'death' then surely the 'king of terrors', Death, must lose some of its terror .. ? |
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Jul 29, 2010 13:10:23 GMT 9.5
Re: Plato, the Sun and Reality
Plato, the Sun (Light/Spirit) is the reality - Plato, the Moon (reflection) is the personality .. ?
So our personality is fleeting but the real us, the spirit part, keeps ensouling new personalities for new lessons .. ?
Spirit could be seen as the unbroken line and the personalities as the divided line.
One could also illustrate this concept using Paul's sketch above, just using Sun as the point and personalities as the planet.
|
|
|
|
Post by mgc on Jul 29, 2010 14:31:25 GMT 9.5
imo personality develops along the same line as the spirit (soul), through xperience.. u could say personality is the 3d reflection of spirit.. my guess would be your sense of right and wrong (and god knows what else) stays with u and further develops from there..
if we go back to plato;
the moon (or any other celestial body) reflects the sun as a personality reflects its soul..
u could see it as a planet that is evolving.. it will look different at every stage, but in essence its the same planet, reflecting the same star (which of course has a large influence on how the planet evolves)..
there is still the anticipation of an "unknown" xperience.. that alone scares the bj out of most ppl..
there not being a permanent death (ever) could be a downer as well.. who wants to live for ever?
|
|
|
|
Post by paul on Jul 29, 2010 20:19:54 GMT 9.5
surely the 'king of terrors', Death, must lose some of its terror .. ? The King of Terrors appears in the Book of Job. He does not appear to be the same as Death. |
|
|
|
Post by coach on Jul 29, 2010 21:55:02 GMT 9.5
Coach, do you think reincarnation a possibility.. ? I believe that it is impossible to avoid. If you correctly respond to the question, "who were you before you were born?" then you have insight into why my answer is so matter of fact. You may also come to understand that some of what is claimed about it is fanciful while some others downright scary. If there is no permanent 'death' then surely the 'king of terrors', Death, must lose some of its terror .. ? Or that very same King is the ultimate terror! It all depends upon what your stepping back into. |
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Jul 30, 2010 9:37:28 GMT 9.5
He is torn from the tent in which he trusted and is brought to the king of terrors I can see a case here for several points of view. Even in our day there are individuals whom one could consider 'kings of terror'. So the king of terror might well have been an individual. But from another point of view, one could consider the tent, which is an impermanent dwelling, as a code word for the physical body. Death tears the permanent us from the impermanent physical vehicle we inhabited for a while and brings us to the Lords of Karma, Judgment, the Overseers, our own Higher Selves, etc etc... which I can imagine might cause some fear ... can we provide the necessary Pass words, or is more correct to say do we possess the necessary Pass words? Job 8:22 "Those who hate you will be clothed with shame, And the tent of the wicked will be no longer."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Job 15:21 "Sounds of terror are in his ears; While at peace the destroyer comes upon him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Job 18:6 "The light in his tent is darkened, And his lamp goes out above him. These cross references remind me of failed essays which end up on the floor as crumpled pieces of paper . |
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Jul 30, 2010 9:46:49 GMT 9.5
...and his lamp goes out above him... the star at the top of the ladder?
|
|
|
|
Post by paul on Jul 31, 2010 8:13:37 GMT 9.5
one could consider the tent, which is an impermanent dwelling, as a code word for the physical body. When I turned off the TV last night it was a metaphor of death - turning out the light of consciousness in the physical form. |
|
|
|
Post by mgc on Jul 31, 2010 11:45:53 GMT 9.5
lol
murder even..
then again, its resurected when u turn it on..
|
|
|
|
Post by coach on Jul 31, 2010 12:22:05 GMT 9.5
one could consider the tent, which is an impermanent dwelling, as a code word for the physical body. When I turned off the TV last night it was a metaphor of death - turning out the light of consciousness in the physical form. But a TV is merely a receiver. The program(s) continue(s) unfettered by the loss/sleep of only one receiver. |
|
|
|
Post by paul on Jul 31, 2010 12:47:05 GMT 9.5
The program(s) continue(s) unfettered by the loss/sleep of only one receiver. As with Life |
|
I see you are a tad cheeky too, coach. Like it. 
