|
Post by coach on Jul 3, 2010 22:26:48 GMT 9.5
Brother Lorraine requested that I post this for discussion. From Building Athens: www.coach.net/BuildingAthens.htm The LineI: What tool does Plato use to describe these realities? R: He uses a divided line. I: How is it employed? R: In four sections. I: What does the first section represent? R: It is called “Eikasia.” It is the lowest form of reality and knowledge based on opinions and illusions. It represents “shadows” and things that do not exist. It relies upon sensations I: Provide an example of this. R: Clay shaped in the character of an animal. I: How so? R: The character of the animal is not an animal. It is clay shaped in the outward appearance of an animal. I: What does the second section on this line represent? R: It is called “Pistis.” It is knowledge based on beliefs about physical things and includes scientific knowledge. It relies upon sensations. I: What does the third section represent? R: It is called “Dianoia.” It is mathematical knowledge representing abstract mathematical objects, such as Numbers and lines. It does not rely upon sensations. I: What does the fourth section represent? R: It is called “Noesis.” It is philosophical knowledge representing forms, especially the “Form of the Good.” It does not rely upon sensations and is the highest form of reality and knowledge. I: What is the “Form of the Good?” R: It is a term coined by Plato’s “metaphor of the Sun” found within his work, “The Republic.” I: What is this metaphor? R: It is Plato’s way of conveying the source of all "intellectual illumination" which he believed to be the “Form of the Good”, sometimes interpreted as Plato's notion of the Almighty. I: What does Plato use as that demarcation or “dividing line”? R: The Sun is used for his purpose. I: How is the Sun classically Symbolized? R: As the point within the circle. I: How is this relevant for Masons? R: The Point within the circle, flanked by two lines and the Volume of Sacred Law denotes the dividing line between where illusion dwells and where Masons come to know the Light of true knowledge. I: What does this say to Masons? R: Masons should keep in mind the dividing line that exists between what is perceived and what is real.
|
|
|
Post by petergower on Jul 4, 2010 2:31:25 GMT 9.5
The two flanked lines represent the solstices. Esoteric Christianity put the two Saint John, the Baptist, matching the Summer Solstice, and the Evangelist for the Winter one. But there is a clear hint to the solstices: we know that immediately after the summer solstice the solar light decreases: the Baptist was beheaded; at the winter Solstice light seems to vanish, the sun is hidden, as well as the Evangelist who leans his head on Jesus' heart, as Leonardo depicted him in the Last Supper. To gain the "intellectual illumination" man has to put aside his mind and to learn by heart, viz. by intuition.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Jul 4, 2010 6:36:24 GMT 9.5
I seem to recall JSM Ward relating the Point within the Circle with 2 vertical lines to a Hindu symbol for Vishnu - a circle within 2 vertical lines generally without the point . And if the lines were horizontal then the symbol indicated Shiva.
So the Masonic symbol might well be a composite with a Hindu symbol.
Still however we also have a point (eye) within a triangle in Holy Royal Arch, and just perhaps if the lodge places the BS in the pavement, we have the Point within the (sort of) Square.
All three of course appear in the Tree of Life
|
|
|
Post by paul on Jul 4, 2010 6:49:58 GMT 9.5
The discussion of levels of knowledge is interesting.
I would however point out that the term "sensations" is used there to refer to the external senses. It is however possible to experience sensations and non-physical levels. For example we might commonly say: something does not feel right about this. This would indicate some emotional or mental sensation of improper shape or quality of the non-physical components of the situation.
|
|
|
Post by petergower on Jul 5, 2010 21:43:33 GMT 9.5
You are right. Emotional and mental levels are not synonim of spiritual.
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Jul 7, 2010 9:04:18 GMT 9.5
I am a slow learner. So I am going to take one section at a time. I: What does the first section represent? R: It is called “Eikasia.” It is the lowest form of reality and knowledge based on opinions and illusions. It represents “shadows” and things that do not exist. It relies upon sensations Can someone give me an example of something that is real and knowable which is based on opinion and illusion? Aaah - politics just sprung to mind Ask and ye shall receive. Politics does exist however.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Jul 7, 2010 9:19:47 GMT 9.5
Surely political messages are not based on shadows?
Next someone will be saying that swine flu, AIDS, terrorism, global warming, millennium bug and peak oil are not what we are told.
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Jul 7, 2010 9:21:32 GMT 9.5
Clay shaped in the character of an animal One cannot shape clay to form a combination of qualities ? Clay shaped to the form of an animal? Am I missing a vital point here? Are you saying that Eikasia is about us confusing form and/with/or qualities (see this is why I like your books... they make one really think)
|
|
|
Post by paul on Jul 7, 2010 10:05:47 GMT 9.5
>Clay shaped to the form of an animal? In the teachings of Edwards Deming en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming he refers to: - manipulating the symbols of solution. By this he means that an initiative is formed that looks like it will solve the problems but actually will do nothing useful. Thus it is shaped like a solution but is made of "clay". Some current US wars might come to mind.
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Jul 7, 2010 14:45:28 GMT 9.5
I: What does the second section on this line represent? R: It is called “Pistis.” It is knowledge based on beliefs about physical things and includes scientific knowledge. It relies upon sensations.
[/i] The only definition I can find in the encyclopaedia for pistis is below. Encyclopedia pistis inner attitude, conviction, or trust relating man to a supreme God or ultimate salvation. In religious traditions stressing divine grace, it is the inner certainty or attitude of love granted by God himself. In Christian theology, faith is the divinely inspired human response to God's historical revelation through Jesus Christ and, consequently, is of crucial significance. dictionary.reference.com/browse/pistis The two difinitions seem to be at odds with each other?
|
|
|
Post by paul on Jul 7, 2010 15:09:14 GMT 9.5
> beliefs about physical things and includes scientific knowledge.
For example it is known that the Earth gets hotter progressively to around 10 km below the surface. From that sensate knowledge we deduce that the Earth must get even hotter towards the centre. Thence we deduce a liquid core.
It is almost certainly an incorrect belief. For example the behaviour of the Earth's magnetic field seems to ignore the believed liquid core.
|
|
|
Post by coach on Jul 8, 2010 4:37:23 GMT 9.5
Clay shaped in the character of an animal One cannot shape clay to form a combination of qualities ? Clay shaped to the form of an animal? Am I missing a vital point here? Are you saying that Eikasia is about us confusing form and/with/or qualities (see this is why I like your books... they make one really think) The statue of David is just stone, yet, when you look at how that stone is shaped, you cannot help but think of David. It is not David, it is stone. The shape though influences you toward thinking that it is something other than stone.
|
|
|
Post by coach on Jul 8, 2010 8:06:28 GMT 9.5
I am a slow learner. So I am going to take one section at a time. I: What does the first section represent? R: It is called “Eikasia.” It is the lowest form of reality and knowledge based on opinions and illusions. It represents “shadows” and things that do not exist. It relies upon sensations Can someone give me an example of something that is real and knowable which is based on opinion and illusion? Aaah - politics just sprung to mind Ask and ye shall receive. Politics does exist however. Example of opinion and illusion (all in bold): It's truly hot and sticky today. So much so that I can't stand it any longer and I'm just gonna go crazy if it doesn't change quickly.
|
|
|
Post by coach on Jul 8, 2010 8:45:53 GMT 9.5
I: What does the second section on this line represent? R: It is called “Pistis.” It is knowledge based on beliefs about physical things and includes scientific knowledge. It relies upon sensations.
[/i] The only definition I can find in the encyclopaedia for pistis is below. Encyclopedia pistis inner attitude, conviction, or trust relating man to a supreme God or ultimate salvation. In religious traditions stressing divine grace, it is the inner certainty or attitude of love granted by God himself. In Christian theology, faith is the divinely inspired human response to God's historical revelation through Jesus Christ and, consequently, is of crucial significance. dictionary.reference.com/browse/pistis The two difinitions seem to be at odds with each other?[/quote] Please review: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy_of_the_divided_line to compare.
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Jul 8, 2010 8:59:13 GMT 9.5
I am really appreciating these examples - thank you both. I had not even heard the word Eikasia before.
If you had to identify Eikasia in lodge where would you find it? I have just a quick run through in my mind.
Officer: I tend to identify the JD with the emotional/astral... so I guess that is one candidate.
Compass: North East? Before the Sun rises .. the shadow side of the lodgeroom before one is called into the greater reality.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Jul 8, 2010 9:08:52 GMT 9.5
>If you had to identify Eikasia in lodge where would you find it?
Hopefully the brethren leave "the lowest form of reality" outside the door of the lodge
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Jul 8, 2010 9:23:38 GMT 9.5
Thanks coach. Have printed it off - my homework for the day.
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Jul 8, 2010 9:39:55 GMT 9.5
>If you had to identify Eikasia in lodge where would you find it? Hopefully the brethren leave "the lowest form of reality" outside the door of the lodge Your attention is first called to the extent of the Lodge, emblematic of the proportions of the Temple of Humanity, which is in length from east to west, in breadth from north to south and in depth from the zenith to the centre of the Earth.
|
|
|
Post by paul on Jul 8, 2010 9:52:23 GMT 9.5
Knowledge of the true extent of the lodge is not Eikasia but Noesis
|
|
|
Post by LorrB on Jul 8, 2010 10:34:18 GMT 9.5
... I was being cheeky, trying to point out that one cannot leave anything outside the door of the lodge, there is no door. (I haven't graduated to Noesis yet.. but will persist).
|
|