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Post by stewartedwards on Jul 11, 2013 19:41:18 GMT 9.5
Enough!!
That simply is not true. While I am not forum staff and admittedly while I almost certainly have not read every deleted post, from my perspective, the issue is that you simply:-
1. Have stated clearly that you want this forum tyled. Hence your actions of flooding this forum, mainly with quotes, as opposed to your own independent thinking, can be seen as intolerant bullying designed to hack forumites like me off. You probably know full well that people don't visit here to see endless quotes most likely often taken out of proper context. Your posts make it very difficult to flow through a conversation.
2. As you have stated that you want this forum tyled your intentions might, in the view of freemasonry you have be honourable, but you do not speak for the whole of the masonic world, and to try to hide bits that you are uncomfortable with is simple intolerance. The masonic world is much bigger than you.
3. Demanding answers, on the occasions that you do, also makes you out to be an intolerant bully.
In essence, your behaviour here is difficult for me to reconcile with UGLEs primary and third tenet. I realise that you might not be an ugle mason [or that there might be several of you], but that is a gold standard that is worth aspiring to. "Every True mason....." so are you a True mason? As defined by UGLE. As opposed to merely an initiated one? If you are why are you posting the way that you do? Striving for truth, involves precisely that - striving - and that involves forcing yourself to think in uncomfortable places, to challenge yourself, to consider the other mans perspective.
As the end of the day you might be right. However even if you are, being disruptive in someone else's home while trying to play the hurt card of "its all their fault" does you little favours. Quite frankly if I were your grand master we would be having serious words about what it means to be a mason. And yes I know how that sounds from a masonic reject. It is you, not the forum owners, in the specific context of what you have done here, that makes me shed a tear.
If your case is solid, you should be able to move hearts positively, by your simple words. So why not simply open your mind and heart and try to understand the perspective of others? But please stop making me despair even more about the state of the masonic world today. If you happen to be Tamrin [given our ufo interactions], then you know that I value what you have done in the masonic world in the past (even if I disagree with some of it) but what you are doing here really is in my opinion [mostly - some of it is good] shameful. If you are not Tamrin, then please accept my apologies Tamrin. But if it is you, you once inspired me. It would be nice if you inspired me again.
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Post by stepnwolf on Jul 11, 2013 20:30:31 GMT 9.5
Enough!! That simply is not true. While I am not forum staff and admittedly while I almost certainly have not read every deleted post, from my perspective, the issue is that you simply:- 1. Have stated clearly that you want this forum tyled. Hence your actions of flooding this forum, mainly with quotes, as opposed to your own independent thinking, can be seen as intolerant bullying designed to hack forumites like me off. You probably know full well that people don't visit here to see endless quotes most likely often taken out of proper context. Your posts make it very difficult to flow through a conversation. 2. As you have stated that you want this forum tyled your intentions might, in the view of freemasonry you have be honourable, but you do not speak for the whole of the masonic world, and to try to hide bits that you are uncomfortable with is simple intolerance. The masonic world is much bigger than you. 3. Demanding answers, on the occasions that you do, also makes you out to be an intolerant bully. ... |
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Post by Poin-dexter on Jul 11, 2013 22:47:32 GMT 9.5
Enough!! That simply is not true. What is simply not true? Do the staff hear not say they practice freedom of expression? I think so. Do they allow dissent or right of reply? I think not. That is what led to my banning and to this impasse. I do not simply want the forum to be tyled, that is only one option. The other preferred options are the removal of the word “Freemasonry” from the forum’s name OR the lifting of censorship. Previously I have stated. WHILE YOU ARE STILL ABLE TO VIEW THIS POST PLEASE CONSIDER WHY IT WILL BE DELETED. THE FORUM STAFF SAY THEY PRACTICE FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION BUT DO NOT ALLOW DISENT OR RIGHT OF REPLY. |
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Post by stewartedwards on Jul 12, 2013 1:59:36 GMT 9.5
If you need me to answer those questions, you might want to stand back from what you are doing for a moment and try to see your posts from a more independent perspective, then you might see the answers.
By you own stated does amount to little more than intolerance. If that were true I would sympathise with you I really would. But from what I have seen [which admittedly isn't every deleted post] you are the one causing the problems. Probably due to your own stated objectives. You are doing more harm to your brand of masonry than anything else in revealing the acceptability of intolerance [even if you as you might argue that this forum owners are doing the same that is no excuse - two wrongs don't make a right] Inspire. Set a good example.
Come on what is masonry if the basic fundamental principles are meaningless?
Please put substance over form. It matters.
I do realise that through chunks of the masonic world there is a clampdown on esoterics, including I am told in England ugle allegedly shutting lodges and pressuring others. But well known Masonic authors past and present mainstream publish some things that would not be out of place here, as we have discussed before. Some of it you can (or at least could) buy in the ugle HQ shop. Are they all wrong and you are right? You do not speak for the whole masonic world, so please inspire.
It really does matter.
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Post by paul on Jul 13, 2013 13:31:35 GMT 9.5
>No Scoundrels allowed? Is that true?
Freemasonry is based on morality - the work of the Entered Apprentice. Thus candidates must be well and worthily recommended by brethren.
No doubt there are lodges that are not as upright as required by Masonry and those lodges may well admit their own kind.
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Post by Poin-dexter on Jul 13, 2013 22:22:32 GMT 9.5
As you have stated that you want this forum tyled your intentions might, in the view of freemasonry you have be honourable, but you do not speak for the whole of the masonic world, and to try to hide bits that you are uncomfortable with is simple intolerance. The masonic world is much bigger than you. I certainly do not speak for the whole masonic world and neither do the staff here, although they run a so-called Masonic forum and post as Freemasons under the banner of the Craft. Nor am I trying to hide bits of Freemasonry I am uncomfortable with. I am trying to bring to light much of the nonsense posted here and to show that it has nothing to do with the genuine esotericism of Freemasonry. Let's face it, if I posted about moon light romps riding on unicorns around the Pleiades with Bigfoot and the Care Bears or even spoke schizoid glossolalia by "sublimating words" instead of simply communicating, I would be warmly welcomed here as a fellow traveller. Nothing I post is vulgar. Some may be challenging but there is a lot here that desperately needs challenging. If you are offended by what I post, please check where the offence lies. WHILE YOU ARE STILL ABLE TO VIEW THIS POST PLEASE CONSIDER WHY IT WILL BE DELETED - AGAIN. THE FORUM STAFF SAY THEY PRACTICE FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION BUT DO NOT ALLOW DISENT OR RIGHT OF REPLY. |
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Post by stewartedwards on Jul 13, 2013 23:28:52 GMT 9.5
As you have stated that you want this forum tyled your intentions might, in the view of freemasonry you have be honourable, but you do not speak for the whole of the masonic world, and to try to hide bits that you are uncomfortable with is simple intolerance. The masonic world is much bigger than you. I certainly do not speak for the whole masonic world Good to hear Poin-dexter, so stop doing it. I realise that some fraternities seem to indoctrinate their members into believing that their "brand" [not the right word I know] is the only brand, but that does not accord with reality - especially in continental Europe. I don't think that they claim too. Indeed and what is wrong with that? I have listened to discussions of non dissimilar things at lodge functions, gasp - even with ugle masons present. Again as I said before if you read the mainstream published works of the likes of McNulty and Temple, both living [and I think] well travelled ugle masons and you would see many similarities. You might not like it - but then again I don't like anchovies or warm beer much. Well I guess some of the meeting, event etc I have been to in England - not that many I give you, but over 15 years - well I guess they were misleading me as well Poin-dexter. Funny that on one occasion it lead to the fpof, another being told which parts of ugle to go towards, etc. Ever considered that you might just not have reached that level of understanding yet yourself? Or possibly that your brothers knowing your clear distaste for it simply don't talk to you about it? I rather think that you might be missing the allegory Poin-dexter. Think in terms of scientific paradigms/mental constructs - tools used to make sense of things - and then what is talked about on here can make a lot more sense when relating it to deaily real life. Scientists do it all the time. Ok re the Pleiades some masons do appear to sincerely believe this as a fact. You never know they might be right for history is recorded by victors and their agendas. And it does accord with ancient cultures, some religious interpretations,and even more modern ....I will try to behave....  u.f.o. experiences of many. Whether you are right or they are right matters less that the fact that it deserves to be discussed, for if some masons do believe that the first degree tracing board is showing this and theirin lies clues to human evolution, you never know they might be right. Equally they might be wrong. But who is to say that you are right and they are wrong? Ask yourself this if a ufo were to land in your back garden right now and a husband and wife popped out in masonic regalia and said "hiya sorry it has been so long what have we missed?" Thus proving to you [bet you would still be sceptical] the global extensive ancient cultural legends, and what some believe about them giving us masonry, would your world end at that moment? Poin-dexter I have had discussions face to face with people wearing acting grand chains about things that might make you uncomfortable. Not since at least 2009 I give you when I thought "sod this for a game of soldiers" due to a decade long observation of masons sometimes viciously squabbling with each other [and to be fair also finding out a bit more about religious intolerance within which almost broke my heart], but I really do think until the masonic world decides to get back to basics and focus on its fundamentals it risks injecting darkness not light in to our world. Poin-dexter I want you to be a beacon of light, not a destroyer of something that you just might not be "getting" yet. Remember your stated agenda betrays you. No but see my previous posts on where you are erring in this regard. And that is a good thing Poin-dexter. Irritated, not offended, especially due to your publicly stated intolerant intentions. In my opinion the offense lies with you and your agenda here. To aim to have a forum tyled or name changed to suit you really is shameful behaviour. It is in my opinion the behaviour of a bully. Though if you are Tamrin I suspect that your ego has become blinded by your worthy successes over other issues in the masonic world, which I do hold you in high regard over. But possibly you might have fallen into an age old trap, one that I myself have in the past wandered into - that of power blinding and corrupting. Challenge - go for it - I fully support you in that - but the way you do it - as I say if I were your grand master we would be having a chat discussing the fundamental tenets, the difference between an initiated and a true freemasons as defined by ugle in its primary tenet [which I am told pretty much everyone ignores] and how they apply in daily life, while I gave you the book to feel its weight in case I ever had to metaphorically throw it at you in the future. Inspire me Poin-dexter, inspire me. |
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Post by Poin-dexter on Jul 14, 2013 22:26:31 GMT 9.5
Again with this tired scenario. Next I expect you will remind us of all the high ranking masons who say you might be the Head of All True Freemasons. Stewart, either these are more of your false memories, like your recollection of the doors at Freemason's Hall, or they are humouring you. If so, it says much about what they really think of you. As for the UFO scenario, it has about as much likelihood as has 's teapot. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot And deserves as much attention as to its possible veracity. With regard to much of what is presented on this forum, it is either true or it is false. Relative truth does not apply to statement of objective fact. The only reason why the staff here get away with it is because no one group has a monopoly on Freemasonry (the same loophole Brad Cofield exploited), there is however a collective identity and we are ALL responsible for correcting manifest errors which bring the fraternity into disrepute and derision. If freedom of expression and right of reply were permitted on this forum, fine. If not, such nonsense should not be allowed to be presented openly under the banner of Freemasonry. “If this work seems so threatening, this is because it isn't simply eccentric or strange, but competent, rigorously argued, and carrying conviction.” Jacques Derrida. |
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Post by stewartedwards on Jul 14, 2013 23:23:36 GMT 9.5
Again with this tired scenario. So focus on the point - your intolerance of this forum as it stands, and don't divert. Ah here we go...Don't think anyone has ever said that to me poin-Dexter. "The One" yes, but the HOATF - no. Oh I don't know pd entirely possible.fortunately I am not concerned about it pd - I thought it rather daft back then. Remember that was back just after the millennium - mostly but not solely in GQS (UGLE HQ and surrounding pubs). I rather imagine that they have moved on to someone else by now - funnily enough I also got this in the guise of "masonic messiah" over on Icke by some of the conspiracy theorists over there - some clearly banter - but some did seem sincere in that belief. Old and new quite funny really. Still I vote for Audrey Tatau (Dan Brown) for the job. As my wife might say - they don't have to live with me  You know pd, even if such a thing were true I would be really disliked for I would be expecting the funamental tenets to be followed and not just paid lip service too far more often. Anyhow I walked away from it all in the third quarter of 2009 so it is all history anyway. But if it did - now try answering the question instead of diverting. What about all of the claimed ugle/amity masons who for many years have amply illustrated in their words on the internet that they dont have a clue about the primary or third tenet? Oh I forgot they get a grand honour.It is, but your methods would have me seriously thinking of ejecting you on your bum if I were your grand master. Its how you do it.In your opinion. But you don't speak for the whole masonic world. Look poin-dexter, be constructive, don't demand, try to see things from the other mans shoes. All you are doing is showing the world that your brand of freemasonry (or more specifically you a nameless sole - is intolerant). Flooding this forum with quotes, blaming others, diverting attention, character assassination etc, do you no favours. Why not say eg in a response to a specificc post something like, "Paul, as a fellow mason I really am having trouble understanding how what you have written in xyz quote bears any relevance to Freemasonry - can you please explain it to me in a different way so that I might be able to understand your position a little bit better?" As some in ugle itself might tell you (or might have at one time) you dont find this in craft lodges which are full of social clubbers - you need to look in the higher/side orders. Sadly I have shaken hands with one ugle mason (and know of, and indeed have met others with similar issues) who no longer attend craft lodges due to the behaviour of brethern. Poin-dexter, if I hadn't myself interacted with such a wide flavour of masons over my 2000-2009 decade, and very occassionally since then (just one open ceremony which I took a small part in) I may well have a lot more sympathy for your position. But the masonic world simply is not that clear cut. Even within ugle and amity. Besides poin-dexter, surely the proper path would be for your grand secretary to contct their grand secretary etc. When you shine you shine, but dont let darkness frustrate you poin-dexter, when you start to employ the tactics you have, you actually do more harm to your cause than good. It took me perhaps 5 years to begin to understand some of what Paul writes, but with a lot of hard inner work I began to make a little progress. I certainly dont agree with everything he writes, but he is doing a lot of good globally in helping people like me deepen our esoteric knowledge. Where I fall flat on my face is that I work better with the mental constructs of say Kirk MacNulty whos book "Way of the Craftsman" fell at my feet in the ugle shop and some of which I instinctively connected with - and if you have read it you will know that it is not an easy esoteric text written by a freemason and mainstream published. So sometimes with Paul I do have to tranlate his mental constructs into ones I do understand and then it makes better sense. So perhaps what Paul writes is not that different to many things that originate in your own esoteric lodges, it might just be using different constructs. Remember you have ugle masons talking about what is in effect remote viewing in Lomas book "The lost Key - the supernatural secrets of the freemasons." So Poin-dexter instead of being agressively intollerant [eg by flooding forum with quotes which might or might not be relevant and might or might not be in context and which the author might or might not have evolved from as they progressed through life themselves] why not try to see things from another perspective? |
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Post by stewartedwards on Jul 14, 2013 23:36:45 GMT 9.5
Also poin-dexter give me a little slack over "The One" issue. If you, like me, had attended lodge functions and meeting in several different fraternities and you had masons, say such things to you (sometimes positively sometimes less so) you might think it mere banter - the first time, but the second independent time, then the third... Things then start to happen to you that supposedly never happen, like a meeting ending in tfpof or getting called brother so often, or foreign lodges openly talking to you about potential ways to get you in etc, it is quite a bit to take in - especially when you have simply followed your heart and have no "agenda". I mean one of the most well travelled ugle masons once wrote to me telling me that while I did not know it at the time in the future I would be doing a lot in the masonic world (cant remember exact words offhand it was over a decade ago, while an acting Grand Secretary of a Grand Lodge you would recognise writes to me as Dear brother while in that letter advising me to join, then please give me some leeway for it is a lot to take in, even if simply a long string of coincidences, errors, mistakes and banter.
Now please don't use this as an excuse to divert, I am just asking for your understanding given you tried to divert with this issue.
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Post by LorrB on Jul 15, 2013 9:36:06 GMT 9.5
Stewart - had you not put so much effort in replying to our unidentified forum offender (UFO)I would have deleted his post as usual.
Maybe this thread has now run its course.
Stewart said -> when you have simply followed your heart and have no "agenda"
THAT is how this forum operates - with open heart. I make no apology for deleting posters and posts which are meant to be offensive.
In building up one's temple - it is not necessary to tear down anothers.
LorrB
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Post by stewartedwards on Jul 15, 2013 15:27:48 GMT 9.5
LorrB, sorry and noted. I will respond to him no more on here. Feel free to delete my posts.
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u.f.o. experiences of many. Whether you are right or they are right matters less that the fact that it deserves to be discussed, for if some masons do believe that the first degree tracing board is showing this and theirin lies clues to human evolution, you never know they might be right. Equally they might be wrong. But who is to say that you are right and they are wrong? 
