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Post by Sovereign Prince on Jun 7, 2013 18:55:02 GMT 9.5
By 3 symbols per rung do you mean a rose, a letter and a rung for the Rose Croix ladder? If so that should be 2 symbols per rung. In the nearest RC chapter they use 3 roses per rung and the letter is not visible until a rose has been removed - hence 3 symbols per rung. It does however mean that there are 21 Roses of Sharon - rather a lot really. All the chapters I've been to have found one rose per rung suffices to cover the letters. Some have other roses scattered on either side. |
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Post by paul on Jun 7, 2013 19:09:35 GMT 9.5
]..All the chapters I've been to have found one rose per rung suffices to cover the letters. Some have other roses scattered on either side. Really scattered? A total of three per rung? |
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Post by Ahura Mazda on Jun 7, 2013 19:23:03 GMT 9.5
No matter how you try to stretch things, one or three roses which are cast aside do not equate to the various numbers of very different symbols per rung shown on the Mithraic ladder.
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Post by paul on Jun 10, 2013 14:02:17 GMT 9.5
For those with an interest:
צדקה, (tsedakah) a word that means charity (in the modern sense), but also truth, justice and righteousness.
שוה לבנה, (shavah lavanah) literally, "merit the white", which Pike translates as "Pure or perfect Equity".
מתוק, (matok) pleasantness or amiability.
אמונה, (emunah) faith, or as Pike translates, "Good Faith".
עמל שגיא, (amal saggi) a lofty effort, or as Pike translates, "Much Labour or Exertion".
סבל, (sabbal) a word meaning a bearer of burdens, or as Pike translates, "Patience or Endurance".
Three words: גמול, and בינה, and תבונה. (gemul, binah, tevunah) The first is deed or action, which Pike translates as "Elaboration". The second is wisdom or insight, which Pike translates as "Prudence". The third is understanding, which Pike translates as "Discrimination"
The second item might have been Tov Lehayim (or similar) and that seems to translate as "good cheer"
Is that all there is? Or have we lost something?
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Post by stepnwolf on Jun 10, 2013 21:35:18 GMT 9.5
For those with an interest: צדקה, (tsedakah) a word that means charity (in the modern sense), but also truth, justice and righteousness. שוה לבנה, (shavah lavanah) literally, "merit the white", which Pike translates as "Pure or perfect Equity". מתוק, (matok) pleasantness or amiability. אמונה, (emunah) faith, or as Pike translates, "Good Faith". עמל שגיא, (amal saggi) a lofty effort, or as Pike translates, "Much Labour or Exertion". סבל, (sabbal) a word meaning a bearer of burdens, or as Pike translates, "Patience or Endurance". Three words: גמול, and בינה, and תבונה. (gemul, binah, tevunah) The first is deed or action, which Pike translates as "Elaboration". The second is wisdom or insight, which Pike translates as "Prudence". The third is understanding, which Pike translates as "Discrimination" The second item might have been Tov Lehayim (or similar) and that seems to translate as "good cheer" Is that all there is? Or have we lost something? |
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Post by Kadosh on Jun 11, 2013 18:00:28 GMT 9.5
For those with an interest: צדקה, (tsedakah) a word that means charity (in the modern sense), but also truth, justice and righteousness. שוה לבנה, (shavah lavanah) literally, "merit the white", which Pike translates as "Pure or perfect Equity". מתוק, (matok) pleasantness or amiability. אמונה, (emunah) faith, or as Pike translates, "Good Faith". עמל שגיא, (amal saggi) a lofty effort, or as Pike translates, "Much Labour or Exertion". סבל, (sabbal) a word meaning a bearer of burdens, or as Pike translates, "Patience or Endurance". Three words: גמול, and בינה, and תבונה. (gemul, binah, tevunah) The first is deed or action, which Pike translates as "Elaboration". The second is wisdom or insight, which Pike translates as "Prudence". The third is understanding, which Pike translates as "Discrimination" The second item might have been Tov Lehayim (or similar) and that seems to translate as "good cheer" Is that all there is? Or have we lost something? Yes thank you for further illustrating the moral significance of the rungs. Remember too, the other half consists of the seven liberal arts and sciences. |
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Post by paul on Jun 18, 2013 7:41:57 GMT 9.5
What ladders exist in the ancient mysteries?
How do they relate to that mysterious ladder veiled by Jacob's Ladder?
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Post by LorrB on Jun 18, 2013 8:17:57 GMT 9.5
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Post by paul on Jun 18, 2013 9:02:48 GMT 9.5
That seems to be a composite from several sources. Does Dawkins tell his sources?
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Post by LorrB on Jun 18, 2013 9:33:11 GMT 9.5
You might like Mr Dawkins  You might get a few clues as to sources from this link. |
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Post by paul on Jul 14, 2013 9:45:09 GMT 9.5
The ladders in RC and 30th do not reference Jacob. Why not? Is there a better source for the mysterious ladder(s)?
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Post by stepnwolf on Jul 14, 2013 18:32:46 GMT 9.5
The ladders in RC and 30th do not reference Jacob. Why not? Is there a better source for the mysterious ladder(s)? It seems to be a Jewish trait to answer a question with a question. Here goes! Are both ladders used for the same purpose? It does seem to me that Jacob's ladder of the Blue Lodge is a window onto universal processes, so to speak. It teaches, perhaps enlightens The ladder in the 30th, specifically, is a practical tool, the one we use in our own development. Lest we become complacent in having attained such lofty heights in Freemasonry, we are remind that our task is the same as it was in the earliest degree: to ascend. |
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Post by paul on Jul 14, 2013 19:37:16 GMT 9.5
Is not the mysterious device veiled by Jacob's Ladder a practical tool?
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Post by LorrB on Jul 15, 2013 9:01:49 GMT 9.5
Step by step. Good points foxy. I liked starting at the top and working down the ladder. (Like your avatar too.. cool (is that still an 'in' word ) |
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Post by paul on Aug 6, 2013 12:46:13 GMT 9.5
So do the various ladders appear in Masonry as a constant repetition of simple morality or is there something more to discover. " the Zohar, teaches that Jacob's ladder was a metaphor for the experience of prayer ... Prayer constitutes the ladder through which a human being climbs from his or her earth-bound existence into deeper states of consciousness, until touching the heavenliness at the core of the human soul." "During the beginning of the prayers, until a section known as "Baruch Sh'amar", the worshipper climbs the first step of the spiritual ladder, cultivating the microcosmic universe of Asiya within his or her psyche. In the second section of the liturgy, known as "Pesukei d'Zimra," the individual ascends to the second rung in the ladder, encountering the microcosmic world of Yetzira. Subsequently, during the recital of the Shema and its preceding blessings, the worshipper enters into the universe of Beriya, and, then, finally, during the silent Standing Prayer, he or she encounters the cosmic intimacy with the world of Atzilut.What this means is that each morning we are summoned to climb Jacob's ladder and cultivate our microcosmic four worlds that reside at various strata of our identity" www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/658156/jewish/Jacobs-Ladder.htm |
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Post by paul on Aug 7, 2013 8:12:48 GMT 9.5
Has the use of Jacob's Ladder been lost to modern Masonry?
The knowledge seems to remain in some Kabbalistic practices.
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Post by LorrB on Aug 7, 2013 11:11:56 GMT 9.5
So do the various ladders appear in Masonry as a constant repetition of simple morality or is there something more to discover. " the Zohar, teaches that Jacob's ladder was a metaphor for the experience of prayer ... Prayer constitutes the ladder through which a human being climbs from his or her earth-bound existence into deeper states of consciousness, until touching the heavenliness at the core of the human soul." "During the beginning of the prayers, until a section known as "Baruch Sh'amar", the worshipper climbs the first step of the spiritual ladder, cultivating the microcosmic universe of Asiya within his or her psyche. In the second section of the liturgy, known as "Pesukei d'Zimra," the individual ascends to the second rung in the ladder, encountering the microcosmic world of Yetzira. Subsequently, during the recital of the Shema and its preceding blessings, the worshipper enters into the universe of Beriya, and, then, finally, during the silent Standing Prayer, he or she encounters the cosmic intimacy with the world of Atzilut.What this means is that each morning we are summoned to climb Jacob's ladder and cultivate our microcosmic four worlds that reside at various strata of our identity" www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/658156/jewish/Jacobs-Ladder.htmLoved this post for several reasons. It pointed out to me that... ...Our lodge operates pretty much as you explain above. Although I must admit that we do not leave enough time aside to ascend further than the first step for the most part. ...That the the ladder is not just something to try to ascend over years of effort ...That I really must make the effort to keep the ladder in my minds eye on a daily basis. Like the link... Geburah - Strength Tipareth - Beauty Wisdom - ?? |
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Post by paul on Aug 7, 2013 12:30:24 GMT 9.5
If you take Geburah as Strength and Tifaret as Beauty then it must be Chesed as Wisdom. This is quite a good attribution as Chesed (Mercy) is related to Jupiter and Tzadek. Tzadek is translated as righteousness but it also has the attribute of initiation. Alternatively: Strength as Binah (associated with Saturn), Chochmah as Wisdom and Tifaret as Beauty.  |
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Post by paul on Aug 7, 2013 14:50:13 GMT 9.5
No. Its introduction to Freemasonry was an innovation of modern Masonry, as described in the first post of this thread. It is certainly possible to claim that. On the other hand since Freemasonry has a clear Jewish framework, ancient Freemasons may well have been trained in ancient Jewish practices. And as the practice of ascending Jacob's ladder persists to this day among some Jews and Kabbalists, there might even be Freemasons who use this esoteric practice. Would such an event be alarming for modern Masons - that Freemasonry can go beyond speculation to direct experience of the temple in the heavens? |
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Post by paul on Aug 8, 2013 12:19:18 GMT 9.5
>And as the practice of ascending Jacob's ladder persists to this day among some Jews and Kabbalists, there might even be Freemasons who use this esoteric practice.
Whilst in an AMORC lodge I was taught some Kabbalah by a Jewish Freemason. I asked him when he was going to teach Rising on the Planes (ascent of Jacob's Ladder) but he said he did not teach that.
I did not press him as to why not, but I suspect that the practice is not common amongst Kabbalists either - partly because teaching via images is much harder.
The Kabbalist is taught to verify which sephiroth (rung) is being accessed by comparison of visual imagery experienced with those images handed down by earlier teachers.
As one can imagine, imagery is quite cultural and is impacted by personal development including experience and karma so that it is difficult to verify one's position on the ladder. For example if one inwardly sees a comfrey plant, does that really confirm that one is anchored in Yesod, or does it mean that one should add comfrey to one's diet?
I find a numerical system much easier to operate.
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