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Post by Richard P Feynman on Jun 1, 2013 22:41:18 GMT 9.5
Perhaps unhelpfully the testimonies are on this page of pictures. So nothing helpful. "I think that it is much more likely that the reports of flying saucers are the results of the known irrational characteristics of terrestrial intelligence than of the unknown rational efforts of extra-terrestrial intelligence." - Richard P Feynman
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Post by stewartedwards on Jun 1, 2013 22:52:16 GMT 9.5
Perhaps unhelpfully the testimonies are on this page of pictures. So nothing helpful. Except of course the large number of downloadable testimonies from people who have held top jobs and firsthand experience. You know policemen, defense staff, military staff etc. Download them read them, then no doubt call them all liars. You enjoy this too much
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Post by paul on Jun 2, 2013 6:34:49 GMT 9.5
... You enjoy this too much Sprung!
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Post by Joie de vivre on Jul 5, 2013 18:10:31 GMT 9.5
... You enjoy this too much ;) Sprung! Too much is never enough.
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Post by Isaac Newton on Jul 5, 2013 18:12:58 GMT 9.5
Except of course the large number of downloadable testimonies from people who have held top jobs and firsthand experience. You know policemen, defense staff, military staff etc. Download them read them, then no doubt call them all liars. "It is the weight, not numbers of experiments that is to be regarded.” - Isaac Newton.
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Post by to begin on Jul 5, 2013 18:18:05 GMT 9.5
To get started, give me your weightiest evidence.
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Post by paul on Jul 5, 2013 18:20:45 GMT 9.5
To get started, give me your weightiest evidence. You can try Google if you are actually interested.
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Post by CENSORSHIP on Jul 5, 2013 22:18:41 GMT 9.5
To get started, give me your weightiest evidence. You can try Google if you are actually interested. This repeatedly deleted reply is very relevant. The burden of proof rests with the person making a positive assertion. I could debunk every related proposition I find using Google but it would be pointless if the person making the assertion did not accept their critical relevance to their assertion.
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Post by paul on Jul 6, 2013 6:24:21 GMT 9.5
>I could debunk every related proposition
I think I understand debunking processes:
- deny the validity of difficult data and witnesses - propose a generic theory without testing it against the data or the witnesses - cease analysis.
Does this process ever produce new knowledge?
Is it used to suppress new knowledge?
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Post by John Locke on Jul 6, 2013 21:48:09 GMT 9.5
"It is ambition enough to be employed as an under-labourer in clearing the ground a little, and removing some of the rubbish that lies in the way to knowledge." - John Locke. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Underlabourer
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Post by stepnwolf on Jul 7, 2013 3:49:06 GMT 9.5
One of our posters is very committed to credibility and it is perhaps worth considering what it means. Credo - I believe (Latin) Thus credibility may be measured by the number of people that believe in a particular statement or concept. If someone is not good at believing then they will not put much credibility in any belief. If this occurred on a large scale would it lead to anarchy? Thus willingness to believe may be an important attribute in human society. Certainly political and religious institutions depend upon it. And of course society trains us to believe in a wide variety of concepts. So does credibility have role in Masonry? Would it be any different if Masonry were a science? Point well taken and well put! In Freemasonry, I believe, credibility is not the issue. If it were so, the miracle of the 3rd would be pointless, the drama of the Mark would be ineffectual, the glorious 18th would loose its power. If for a time we suspend disbelief mysteries are open to us. I've never met a Bro. who was ever disenchanted with our system, although there must be some. He must say to himself that all this ritual means nothing to him. It would be because he cannot suspend disbelief, he cannot open himself to the real magic that takes place in a Lodge. We speak of Masonic science, but the science is beyond geometry, beyond the elements of engineering. Does credibility mean a belief that such and such is true? Then credibility in Masonry is a belief in the possibility that such and such is true. To quote Matthew 19:26, not to prove anything but to put it succinctly:
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Post by ex cathedra on Jul 7, 2013 14:35:11 GMT 9.5
The lessons of Freemasonry do not require credulity as they are simply presented as allegories and symbols. No one, not even a Grand Master, can authoritatively and dogmatically tell us what they mean. If any one presumes to tell others what they mean, they bear the burden of proof. “Telling someone about what a symbol means is like telling someone how music should make them feel.” - Dan Brown.
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Post by stepnwolf on Jul 8, 2013 3:29:13 GMT 9.5
So is credibility an issue for those brethren wishing to explore the hidden mysteries of nature and science? I'm a middle of the roader. If we cannot rely of credibility for truth, as Paul has pointed out, perhaps we can call upon reliable report as a standard. It seems to have served the scientific method quite well. But, alas, while reports abound there's no way to test reliability. As a youth, I bought CWL and AB hook line and sinker, as they say. Now I don't now. Why? When I first arrived here, Paul posted a piece on Occams Razor, which states simply, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. The rule may not work on all levels of reality,but it seems to be safe for a while anyway. So that seems to be how my judgements operate. Then there is always the seat-of-the-pants method. Run the idea up the flag pool and see how it feels. For some people this method works about as well as Occam's.
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Post by paul on Jul 8, 2013 8:26:08 GMT 9.5
... Run the idea up the flag pool and see how it feels... Using the mind as a sense organ: - the idea feels good - I see how the concepts work together - it sounds right - it smells fishy - it has a bad taste
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Post by stepnwolf on Jul 8, 2013 11:07:29 GMT 9.5
... Run the idea up the flag pool and see how it feels... Using the mind as a sense organ: - the idea feels good - I see how the concepts work together - it sounds right - it smells fishy - it has a bad taste Yes! Yes! Sometimes there is a sensation like that, but not coming from any of the 5 senses. That sometimes confuses me because I don't know how it comes to consciousness. I kinda chalked it up to an intuition of some sort. I wouldn't say that these intuitions have universal application, however. They come out of my experiences and have reference to my universe, so to speak. Now, I like the feeling I get from "mind as sense organ." It feels right to me.
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Post by circular on Jul 8, 2013 21:15:19 GMT 9.5
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Post by paul on Jul 10, 2013 7:42:08 GMT 9.5
.... so put down the Circular Reasoning ball bat and stop clubbing people especially feminine and making them subject to you comprehension and thought control, be kind to the babes if you know how, and show mercy if this is possible to schedule, on your agenda It takes time to change the habits of centuries.
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Post by paul on Jul 10, 2013 7:45:02 GMT 9.5
.... And grace is what separates both realms, those with hope looking to find a better life, and misery desiring company, in their loneliness and oft become willing to hobble people up to drag them into their insanity and declare this a relationship, seemingly the meanest or angriest person wins the dominate role of these associations What is the alternative for such an angry person? Discover that they are creating most of their own misery? Who could stand such a discovery?
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Post by stepnwolf on Jul 10, 2013 20:55:19 GMT 9.5
What is the alternative for such an angry person? Discover that they are creating most of their own misery? Who could stand such a discovery? Golly, Paul, you're hot today! Are we dealing with what the specialists call a codependant relationship? (Beware of words that have no meaning !) I am not completely unfamiliar with the condition. Yes, it appears that the angry person has to change, but the other partner often elicits the undesired reaction. But who am I to give advice? Wikipedia comes to our aid with Codependency
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Post by paul on Jul 16, 2013 5:31:43 GMT 9.5
A zombie apocalypse is easily dealt with using the new forum software.
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