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Post by paul on Apr 9, 2013 7:33:58 GMT 9.5
Humans are often oppressed, as individuals, families, social & ethnic groups, nations and even the human race itself.
Oppression can be social, economic, physical, psychological and spiritual.
And the response/reaction can be:
- ignorance of what is happening
- pretended ignorance
- active cooperation
- passive cooperation
- passive resistance
- active resistance
- ??
So how should humans deal with oppression?
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Post by LorrB on Apr 9, 2013 9:30:23 GMT 9.5
Stand up straight
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Post by paul on Apr 9, 2013 9:39:47 GMT 9.5
Is that passive resistance?
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Post by LorrB on Apr 9, 2013 10:04:42 GMT 9.5
After one stands up straight one says what one has to say and does what what needs to be done - quietly and firmly.
Ashlars are fire resistant, smooth ashlars more so... they reflect the heat.
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Post by LorrB on Apr 9, 2013 11:22:27 GMT 9.5
Hope is a wonderful quality... it is my chosen gift to the world.
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Post by stepnwolf on Apr 9, 2013 22:19:42 GMT 9.5
Actually I haven't given this question any consideration before Paul asked it. My first thought would be to consider three items:
1. Is the oppression sufficiently serious to deserve a response? If somebody is parking in my space, do I attack or look for another spot?
2. Is my response commensurate with the oppression? I wouldn't use an attack weapon to kill a bothersome mosquito nor would I expect that a fly-swatter sufficient to deter my country's invader.
3. In my case, I would measure any considered response against the overriding principal of ahimsa, nonviolence. Gandhi's salt march to the sea was a nonviolent reaction to English oppression in India.
Of the alternatives offered in Paul's post, I'd try for passive resistance. A psychiatrist might call it passive aggressive, not a good thing in therapeutic terms, but the most effective response in my case.
In any event, we should use reliable information to formulate a response. In my own country, the US, we were fed untrue information to justify invasion into a foreign country and then we had the tiger by the tail. We should be clear about what constitutes oppression as well. I dare say that often oppression is in the eye of the beholder and is objectively unreal.
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Post by paul on Apr 10, 2013 7:49:32 GMT 9.5
In the Red Lion the alchemist welcomes his murder by his apprentice. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A1ria_SzepesAre there karmic situations where the most charitable path is to allow the attacker to work without restriction? >In my own country, the US, we were fed untrue information to justify invasion into a foreign country I doubt that was the only case of untrue information being used in the US. |
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Post by LorrB on Apr 10, 2013 8:50:44 GMT 9.5
... or anywhere else.
There is a whole science attached to even simple things like how to frame a question to get the answer you want.
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Post by LorrB on Apr 10, 2013 8:55:52 GMT 9.5
In the Red Lion the alchemist welcomes his murder by his apprentice. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A1ria_SzepesAre there karmic situations where the most charitable path is to allow the attacker to work without restriction? You would leave the door open so that a thief or murderer might enter? |
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Post by paul on Apr 10, 2013 9:06:01 GMT 9.5
>You would leave the door open so that a thief or murderer might enter?
Not just any thief.
A co-worker was telling me yesterday that her house was burgled using the door key and she knows who did it. She will do nothing about the matter.
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Post by stepnwolf on Apr 10, 2013 11:32:37 GMT 9.5
Yes, that sounds foolish on the face of it, doesn't it? Before leaving the door unlocked, it may be wise to review AA's 3rd step: "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him." With the decision comes an act of faith that has as its basis: Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God.
What value does a belief system have that doesn't leave room for faith? I heard many years ago the question: How do I get more faith? The simple answer: use what you have. We all have problems we feel we must resolve, anything from no rent money to North Korea invading the South, to she doesn't love me. With faith they all can be solved.
If I am wrong, faith will still sustain me. Faith doesn't come by an act of will; it can't be forced. Still it comes gently without fanfare or drama. Until it comes, we can exercise the faith we have. I don't know how electric circuits work, but I turn on the light switch in faith.
Some religious cults in America, drink poison and handle poisonous snakes in what they call faith. When they die is it because of a lack of faith? I suspect they die of supreme egotism, thinking they can do this thing in some magical way. The longer I experience life the more I think faith is the most natural thing. Our egos estrange us from the most natural course.
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Post by paul on Apr 10, 2013 12:16:01 GMT 9.5
>Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God.
I suppose it depends on what sort of time frame is involved.
Most of us are used to positive synchronicity - unlikely conjunctions of positive events. I have a friend who is a dedicated light worker. For years she experienced negative synchronicity on daily basis. I tended to the view that she was living in a locality that was more dark than light so combinations of events were almost always difficult combinations.
This is reflected in the saying: When sorrows come, they come not single spies, But in battalions!
She is living in a better context these days and no longer has long battles with depression.
>faith will still sustain me
There may be two sorts of faith: based on belief and based on a knowing. Faith based on belief is ultimately fragile as all beliefs require some reinforcement to survive.
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Post by paul on Apr 11, 2013 5:36:11 GMT 9.5
>I do not have a personal free will as Usual humans do!
Are you sure that it is a proper (clean) situation?
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Post by paul on Apr 11, 2013 8:20:14 GMT 9.5
>I do not know if this is a proper or clean situation
It is unclear to me also.
You may wish to put your attention to the Source of All and invoke a sleek resolution of your situation. Sleek is to reduce the prospect of resolution that is more intense than desirable.
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Post by paul on Apr 11, 2013 8:58:25 GMT 9.5
Some humans find that when they invoke resolution that it is very intense and even traumatic as it turns their lives upside down. After a couple of those experiences they tend to invoke a qualified resolution - allowing time for humans to adjust with some degree of comfort.
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Post by LorrB on Apr 11, 2013 9:32:04 GMT 9.5
Maybe we are only free to exercise our individual will when it does not impinge on the free will of others.
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Post by paul on Apr 11, 2013 9:45:13 GMT 9.5
Ok I just remember every time I hear free will that Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. ... I read that as political struggle amongst the gods who wished to capture the Earth. That struggle has been written later as theology. For example "the most High" is the name of one of the gods: El Elyon. He descended to Earth periodically to sort out the power struggles in his offspring and nephews - the sons of the most high. The power struggles certainly did weaken the nations as the gods used the nations as invading armies. >I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north This sounds a rather literal and earth-based event. |
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Post by stepnwolf on Apr 11, 2013 11:19:02 GMT 9.5
>Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God. I suppose it depends on what sort of time frame is involved. >faith will still sustain me There may be two sorts of faith: based on belief and based on a knowing. Faith based on belief is ultimately fragile as all beliefs require some reinforcement to survive. I try to keep my time frame in the eternal. Anything less is too short a time. So true: belief-based faith is fragile and needs to be protected, something I can do personally. The other kind is a gift, which I can't call down from on high, but it will find root in the rich soil prepared by belief-based faith. |
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Post by paul on Apr 11, 2013 11:27:50 GMT 9.5
>.... it will find root in the rich soil prepared by belief-based faith.
I am not sure that belief is a prerequisite to faith. He who is aware of the intelligence within the Cosmos has faith without belief.
And awareness can come without pre-existing belief. The received account of Paul being hit by light is one example.
Mainstream religion has problems with those that have faith without belief - even to the point of crusades against the knowers (gnostics)
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