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Post by paul on Sept 30, 2012 12:01:01 GMT 9.5
>I can see that the square and compasses are great clues
Are we not repeatedly told that they are working tools to be Used in a Moral Sense? So how are we to use them?
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Post by LorrB on Oct 1, 2012 9:14:51 GMT 9.5
Our ritual books explain their moral use in detail, is that the answer you are looking for?
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Post by paul on Oct 1, 2012 9:29:40 GMT 9.5
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Post by LorrB on Oct 1, 2012 9:35:12 GMT 9.5
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Post by paul on Oct 1, 2012 10:02:14 GMT 9.5
And the image suggests that the male uses the square and the female the compasses. Does this mean that the male-only Masonry is a bit light-on?
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Post by LorrB on Oct 1, 2012 13:24:42 GMT 9.5
The female represents Binah and heads the pillar of Severity, so I would say that it is the passive principle we might well examine here.
I have mentioned previously that Binah is one of my nominees for The Widow. And let's face it, life here on Earth is not all that easy for most people.
On another level, it does seem to be the woman who can persevere through life's difficulties with less damage than the man, generally speaking. Women use the heart and mind to dodge the blows, men are more likely to become warlike in response. No offence meant, just an observation.
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Post by stepnwolf on Oct 4, 2012 13:02:40 GMT 9.5
Paul's question opens a Pandora's box of other questions. First, in most of the LL we know, it is the Bible that is placed on the Altar. But many Grand L. allow other books to represent the VSL. Is it merely a Great Light, or is it a source of that light? It may be illuminated, but it illumines our hearts and mind with Wisdom.
The E.A. is figuratively given the Light found in the VSL, but he is also furnished with the tools to comprehend that Light. The Square illumines with the light of reason to test our understanding found in the VSL. The Compass delineates the limits on our examination, illuminating the dark corners that may escape our notice. It may be that the intended meaning of Light here is not physical, but spiritual or figurative.
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Post by paul on Oct 4, 2012 13:15:45 GMT 9.5
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Post by stepnwolf on Oct 5, 2012 1:38:34 GMT 9.5
I have no reason to believe that my understanding of the three great lights is anywhere near correct, but here goes. A lodge has many sources of physical light: light bulbs, candles, etc. but they give only physical illumination. The light of the VSL is of a different order; we cannot read by that light but we can think, understand, aspire, feel by the light of the VSL and we can do so without physical light. Therefore I wouldn't expect a physical light (except as symbols) but would look for some energy of a higher order. Hence the square and compass is brought into play.
Unaided, the supernal light of the VSL can be misunderstood. We can build philosophical structures that will not stand to reason. Applying the great light of the square, we can square our observation with reason.
Finally, the Compass keeps us close to the Center so that we do not stray too far from the Light issuing from the VSL.
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Post by paul on Oct 5, 2012 7:51:17 GMT 9.5
>candles, etc. but they give only physical illumination In the LDH opening the ritual seems to imply that wisdom, strength and beauty can radiate from physical flames when established with proper intent. >The light of the VSL is of a different order I have noticed that the Bible used at the founding of my lodge has a different and higher effect than that of the modern edition in routine use. This suggests that how the book is dealt with is as significant as the content. And we also have lights from the East, West and Meridian - each of which is separately addressed at the opening. (Gardeners can distinguish those light qualities) >Applying the great light of the square It is true that what is veiled by the square is the manifestation of a light >the Compass keeps us close to the Center so that we do not stray too far from the Light issuing from the VSL I rather think that the Compasses veil another light.
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Post by paul on Oct 6, 2012 7:42:06 GMT 9.5
>I saw the only way to undo the curse placed on man (if we consider it a cures at all) was for a person to walk the locks of the afore mentioned covenants If I understand this correctly, you mean that to undo a curse it is necessary to act contrary to the curse until its energy is diminished and resolved. I have no doubt that that is effective but it does require a period of most difficult effort. As an aspiring scientist of inner worlds I look for leverage so that our efforts might be multiplied. Baldwin's book includes examples in dealing with entities. Curses are often more structural and may need further techniques such as withdrawing the substance on those of the 49 sub-planes on which the metaphysicist can operate. As for the "50 levels" I think this arises from accounts such as this: "Nothing therefore is more excellent that the mysteries which ye seek after, saving only the mystery of the seven vowels and their forty nine powers...." "The seven fathers and the forty nine sons blaze in darkness but they are the life and the light " books.google.com.au/books?id=rjrsY2Ivo3wC&pg=RA3-PA72&lpg=RA3-PA72&dq=seven+fathers+49+sons&source=bl&ots=FGOAgZvAFS&sig=dzilpwScaDSjvRSx9UgPCTKHysI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EFVvUITLOIu0iQermIHQCg&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=seven%20fathers%2049%20sons&f=falseThe theory being that if the Christ is the Creator then the Christ must transcend the 7 fathers and 49 sons and transcending 49 is the number 50. This also links to the Sumerian account where Enlil (Lord of the Earth) is named as 50. The 7 fathers and 49 sons are represented in Masonry by various ladders. The 7 fathers are also closely related to the Lords of Karma (Recording Angel)
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Post by paul on Nov 20, 2012 10:02:26 GMT 9.5
It is perhaps relevant to the topic to consider which way the compasses should be placed.
Some lodges place the compasses with the points to the West and others with points to the East.
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Post by LorrB on Nov 20, 2012 13:59:47 GMT 9.5
Do you think it matters?
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Post by paul on Nov 20, 2012 14:13:10 GMT 9.5
>Do you think it matters?
Most of us who have helped set up a lodge know how the feeling in the room changes as the props are put into their proper places.
So too for the compasses - hence the flash of non-physical light that may occasionally be observed.
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Post by LorrB on Nov 21, 2012 9:11:08 GMT 9.5
In which case I would say that the points of the compasses should point westwards.
(is there a 'correct angle' in this regard, even if symbolic?)
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Post by paul on Nov 21, 2012 9:24:32 GMT 9.5
>In which case I would say that the points of the compasses should point westwards. Quite so. If the angle is 60 degrees it could be held to identify Jerusalem, based on work by Chris Knight. "The latitude of Jerusalem is 31 degrees 47' north, which means that the angle of the shadows cast by the winter and summer solstices is precisely 60 degrees. " itssinstupid.tripod.com/JERUSHEX.HTMOf course it is not proven that the site of the modern Jerusalem has any connection with the biblical Jerusalem
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Post by Henka on Nov 21, 2012 12:57:59 GMT 9.5
Of course it is not proven that the site of the modern Jerusalem has any connection with the biblical Jerusalem It's been in the same spot for centuries.
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Post by paul on Nov 21, 2012 13:41:34 GMT 9.5
>It's been in the same spot for centuries. Quite right. The difficulty of course is that the Old Testament is thought to traverse millennia. There are several issues if the commonly accepted datings for the Old Testament are used. One of which is that Jerusalem hardly existed as a village when it was supposed to be the centre of an empire with King Solomon's temple. There are two possibilities that have been extensively explored: - the dating is wrong - see for example www.amazon.com/History-Fiction-Science-Chronology-No/dp/2913621058- the placement is wrong - see for example www.amazon.ca/Bible-Came-Arabia-Kamal-Salibi/dp/0330295195Both the above texts have vast amounts of detail. The analysis of ancient Egyptian astronomical scenes is particularly confronting. Similar issues arise with Greek literature e.g. Homer's Odyssey has had some 30 attempts to explain the geography of the journey. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_the_OdysseyIf the times and places of history are wrong then perhaps I support Henry Ford: History is bunk! One of the traps of course is assuming that names are non-functional. For example if the Jerusalem means the city of the god Shalem then it could be in different places at different times. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem#Etymology en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ShalemThe god Shalem was associated with Venus, the morning star whose rising brings ...
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Post by Henka on Nov 22, 2012 4:21:47 GMT 9.5
>It's been in the same spot for centuries. Quite right. The difficulty of course is that the Old Testament is thought to traverse millennia. There are several issues if the commonly accepted datings for the Old Testament are used. One of which is that Jerusalem hardly existed as a village when it was supposed to be the centre of an empire with King Solomon's temple. There are two possibilities that have been extensively explored: - the dating is wrong - see for example www.amazon.com/History-Fiction-Science-Chronology-No/dp/2913621058- the placement is wrong - see for example www.amazon.ca/Bible-Came-Arabia-Kamal-Salibi/dp/0330295195Both the above texts have vast amounts of detail. The analysis of ancient Egyptian astronomical scenes is particularly confronting. Similar issues arise with Greek literature e.g. Homer's Odyssey has had some 30 attempts to explain the geography of the journey. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_the_OdysseyIf the times and places of history are wrong then perhaps I support Henry Ford: History is bunk! One of the traps of course is assuming that names are non-functional. For example if the Jerusalem means the city of the god Shalem then it could be in different places at different times. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem#Etymology en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ShalemThe god Shalem was associated with Venus, the morning star whose rising brings ... Of course, there was no empire or King Solomon. It is mythology.
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Post by paul on Nov 22, 2012 5:38:02 GMT 9.5
>Of course, there was no empire or King Solomon. It is mythology.
Certainly the current time-place allocation is wrong but I am currently unable to say for sure that there has been no transference in the accounts, e.g. Moses being brought up as Egyptian could have imported some Egyptian history that appeared in later Jewish accounts. Equally Sumerian history could have come via Abraham. There are many alternatives that could be investigated.
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