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Post by Henka on Mar 17, 2011 9:29:31 GMT 9.5
I am coming to the conclusion that the thread question is a bit ambivalent. The Who or What is God question has filled libraries to date, with no real conclusion agreed to by all. Masonry, likewise, covers too many forms or expressions of it for it to be taken as just one thing. In LDH - we have two totally different rituals which each express the same thing at different levels. Lauderdale Ritual... We invoke the aid of TGAOTU (and his ministers) .... how would you explain this to an atheist or agnostic? Or do you see 'invoke' as just another word and not an 'operation'? Are you 'working' during a lodge meeting or are you gathering inspiration for just working outside the lodgeroom? You're asking the blessings of The Great Architect, whoever She is. You cats are doing a "working" because of the Theosophical basis of your ritual. We do not do so in our ritual (Preston-Webb). If I'd seen anyone waving incense around, I'd have been out of there like a shot. ;D
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Post by Cora B on Mar 17, 2011 11:56:28 GMT 9.5
In LDH - we have two totally different rituals which each express the same thing at different levels. We have as many as the Supreme Council authorises. Here in the British Federation we currently work (in the Craft) Lauderdale, Verulam, The Irish Working, the Scottish Working and the Georges Martin, and until a few years ago we also worked Emulation. You don't. It's up to them to give meaning to the Symbol. Isn't that the point of Symbols? I couldn't put into words what 'TGAOTU' means to me -- I neither define nor describe what I feel to be beyond my present comprehension. How then would I presume to explain it to anyone else? I honestly don't think that a belief in a Supreme Being is an advantage for the ideal candidate to comprehend the concept of TGAOTU. In some sense it may even be a disadvantage, because one who comes with preconceived beliefs may come with pre-formed notions and expectations, whereas one who does know what to expect, but comes of his own free will and accord, is perhaps more readily able to explore areas that were previously closed to him. I like to think of it as working during lodge meeting so that I may render myself more extensively serviceable to humanity when I return to the profane world, and in doing so, may work TTGOTGAOTU.
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Post by paul on Mar 17, 2011 12:30:45 GMT 9.5
Are you 'working' during a lodge meeting or are you gathering inspiration for just working outside the lodgeroom? Hopefully when the lodge is open it extends from East to West and North to South. I have seen that happen on occasion. Thus the work in the lodge is simultaneously in the greater lodge.
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Post by LorrB on Mar 17, 2011 12:42:34 GMT 9.5
Oh yes we do... and as current Master I get to actually say those words. Of course we do not picture the TGA in any particular form, but we definitely invoke the Presence.
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Post by LorrB on Mar 17, 2011 12:45:50 GMT 9.5
How marvellous! Have you experienced them all?
I have only ever experienced the Lauderdale and we performed a French style initiation on one occasion when the National Convention was held in Adelaide. The two W's in the W was interesting. Quite enjoyed it.
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Post by Cora B on Mar 17, 2011 12:53:55 GMT 9.5
I would have thought most Deists understand the format of Theist belief and are capable of translating. Thus "we invoke the aid of the GAOTU" becomes "may the Force be with us" Mostly likely nowadays they do, Paul -- the comment on my part arises from my current studies of the Lausanne Congress of 1875 and how it impacted on the development of relations between Supreme Councils throughout the world. I just find it mind boggling that the same arguments that were being used back then (see: Almeida de Carvalho - the Lausanne Congress and Buta - the God Conspiracy: The Politics of Grand Lodge Foreign Relations) still continue to create division in a discipline that is supposed to promote Union.
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Post by Cora B on Mar 17, 2011 13:01:54 GMT 9.5
Oh yes we do... and as current Master I get to actually say those words. Of course we do not picture the TGA in any particular form, but we definitely invoke the Presence. He-he-he... okay, let me rephrase that then. Yes, of course you Invoke the aid of TGAOTU, that's part of the Ritual -- what I meant is that personally, I wouldn't explain the Invocation. The principle, yes. But the detail? No -- that's for the Candidate to fill in.
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Post by Cora B on Mar 17, 2011 13:07:45 GMT 9.5
How marvellous! Have you experienced them all? Apart from Emulation, yes; the Lodge that worked Emulation closed before I could see it work. I love the Georges Martin ritual -- it is so deep. We have one Lodge working it (my 'god-motherlodge' ;D), and we used the Georges Martin working at the National Convention in November for the ceremonial reception of the Grand Master and dignitaries. Loved it! If you like the initiation, you should see the passing ... ;D
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Post by paul on Mar 17, 2011 13:37:01 GMT 9.5
As far as I can tell, when both Wardens are in the West, the pavement should be diagonal. I can't find exactly the image I would like but here the 2 columns on the floor are symbolically the source of the currents - even though only 1 Warden is in the West
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Post by LorrB on Mar 17, 2011 14:01:50 GMT 9.5
Quite the norm in the early 18th century, “Table” Lodges were restricted to Freemasons only. The tables were set up with one in the East, or at the head, and two parallel ones at right angles to the head table. It can also be set up in the form of a horseshoe, as the French Masons were wont to do. The Master would be in the East and both Wardens in the West, at the foot of the columns.
sanmateomasoniclodge.com/the_old_past_master.html
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Post by paul on Mar 17, 2011 15:14:23 GMT 9.5
The change in orientation of the tiles may be quite significant. For example, where should the tassels be with a diagonal pavement?
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Post by Cora B on Mar 18, 2011 0:48:26 GMT 9.5
The change in orientation of the tiles may be quite significant. For example, where should the tassels be with a diagonal pavement? At the Quarter Points. As for your earlier observation in relation to the diagonal lay-out of the pavement in the French Orientation, it is my experience that you are quite right. Having served in various offices from IG to MC in this lay-out it is my experience that through the positioning of the Officers there actually exists a hexagonal flow of energy - a primary triangle between WM and Wardens, and a secondary triangle between IG, Deacon and MC.
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Post by paul on Mar 18, 2011 7:44:56 GMT 9.5
So what does the hexagonal flow allow?
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Post by Cora B on Mar 18, 2011 7:52:28 GMT 9.5
So what does the hexagonal flow allow? Interaction -- it's an energetic double helix ('from the Zenith to the Centre of the Earth'). The Officers, partly by movement, partly by being a conduit, activate the pavement, but also feed energy back up. The higher the vibrations, the more powerful and denser the core becomes, and the more 'particles' (souls / participants) a fully engaged Lodge will attract. No wonder we need our sweets at the Festive Board afterwards!
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Post by paul on Mar 19, 2011 7:49:04 GMT 9.5
I am interested in linking hexagonal energies (presumably based on a 6 pointed star) to common Masonic symbolism. Masonry tends to use 3, 5 and 7.
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Post by paul on Mar 19, 2011 7:52:59 GMT 9.5
and returning somewhat to the original question: While belief in a (name of the) Supreme Being may be essential (whether theistic or deistic) do we really need to have faith that the Supreme Being takes a positive interest in us?
For example, I am Creator to the cells at the ends of my fingers, but I treat them as disposable, growing new ones to replace those worn out in my service.
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Post by Cora B on Mar 19, 2011 8:36:20 GMT 9.5
I am interested in linking hexagonal energies (presumably based on a 6 pointed star) to common Masonic symbolism. Masonry tends to use 3, 5 and 7. In that sense the hexagonal energy flow allows the construction of the dodecahedron.
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Post by Cora B on Mar 19, 2011 8:45:47 GMT 9.5
and returning somewhat to the original question: While belief in a (name of the) Supreme Being may be essential (whether theistic or deistic) do we really need to have faith that the Supreme Being takes a positive interest in us? No. I refer to Neale D. Walsh in Conversations with God. We are born of the Light and are continuously co-creating with It. We make manifest the Supreme Will in evolution with every notion we conceive, every word we speak and every action we undertake. We are at once Its Creation and Its Architect. We have Free Will -- we are at absolute Liberty to swim against the flow or allow ourselves to be carried by it. Life is a gift - what we make of it is for us to decide and take responsibility for.
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Post by paul on Mar 19, 2011 8:50:57 GMT 9.5
>We make manifest the Supreme Will in evolution with every notion we conceive
I wonder if most humans even recognise the possibility of such a consciousness.
And while no doubt we do manifest the Supreme Will in all our actions, surely many resist the Supreme Will - with perhaps little long term effect.
What then is the value of the free will that humans speak of - with little scriptural support?
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Post by Cora B on Mar 19, 2011 10:43:46 GMT 9.5
>We make manifest the Supreme Will in evolution with every notion we conceive I wonder if most humans even recognise the possibility of such a consciousness. And while no doubt we do manifest the Supreme Will in all our actions, surely many resist the Supreme Will - with perhaps little long term effect. What then is the value of the free will that humans speak of - with little scriptural support? To resist it is a choice we have -- the swimming against the stream. That IS free will. I cannot speak for anyone else, but for me the value of that free will has been that I was free to descend into the darkness within, travel by a way I knew not, see darkness made light before me and crooked things made straight. It may be the most paradoxical statement ever, but when I found that Hidden Glory I knew once and for all a belief in a Supreme Being was not a prerequisite, for if you cannot find it within, you will never find it without.
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