Tricky Topic

[stewartedwards]

I had to rewind my Tv about an old fictional spy program (The Professionals, a take on our (British) security services), that I first watched decades ago. The spooks were concerned about an international organisation of terrorist Freemasons. I had to double take and rewind to double check on that comment.

I know, personally people who are quite anti freemasonry due to all sorts of reasons, some quite personal. I know of a lodge that was nearly taken to court for allegedly harming an individual. I lost a girlfriend once in part because her father did not like my interest in freemasonry. A local church tried to convince me of the evils of freemasonry decades ago, and its members still think that I am under some sort of bond, beholden to the evil Freemasons.

But, I have never heard of freemasonry being called a terrorist organisation (though could see how it might be in some countries, but we are talking Britain here). Ok it is a fictional tv program, and you could reasonably expect British freemasonry to be full of British spooks, but it just startled me. After all the program focuses on the sort of tasks you would expect MI5 to deal with (the tv program call it CI5).

So my question, does anyone know if a branch if freemasonry has ever been deemed a terrorist organisation?

My gob has been smacked

(The Professionals S5E5 first aired 5/12/82.)

[paul]

Propaganda Due is an obvious example

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due

In 1717 a small group of relatively new lodges in London and Westminster declared themselves as "time immemorial" lodges (thereby not needing a founding charter). Over time they were claimed to be a Grand Lodge and declared that all new lodges needed to be chartered by them.

At the time there were perhaps 50 other lodges in that area, mostly loyal to the Stewart line rather than the German king of Britain.

The new GL was set up to provide Masonry that was loyal to the German king at a time when there were many revolutionary groups in Europe and the British government was starting to crack down. Implicitly Scottish Masonry was terrorist as it supported the rightful Stewart line that the English claimed had become extinct.

The formation of this new GL (previously not required as any 7 regularly made Masons could establish a new lodge without charter) resulted in the esoteric sponsors of Masonry withdrawing. As a result the new group of lodges did not have a third degree until 1723 when they had Noah being raised by his sons.

Two years later that was replaced by Hiram not being raised. That is first observed in a lodge where the presiding Master was not a member of the lodge - as if he arrived with recognised authority and just took over to introduce the new ritual


I think that French Masonry was more commonly used for political/revolutionary purposes than English in the 18th century

[stewartedwards]

Paul, thank you.

I do remember this now. As with many things I seem to have forgotten, but the more that I think of it now, I remember having some fun about the Stewart line a long time ago on a Masonic forum with a breakaway GL from UGLE. (Grand Lodge of All England?). The ex UGLE Grand chap who did it was very much of the opinion, publicly on Tfm? Forum that GLOS went into bed with the wrong folk in England!

Stuart is the most common spelling in Scotland I believe for the name, but my mum insisted that I was to be Stewart, as that was the real spelling. I now duck awaiting all sorts of things to be thrown my way. (From fellow Scots named Stuart).

[stewartedwards]

Jan 4, 2023 6:00:19 GMT 9.5 paul said:

The formation of this new GL (previously not required as any 7 regularly made Masons could establish a new lodge without charter) resulted in the esoteric sponsors of Masonry withdrawing.

Apologies now, as this probably annoys some masons, but I spent the first decade of this millennium immersed in the wider Masonic world, as best I could, for the following reasons..

1. I felt a connection that I wanted to explore.
2. I wanted to understand why both parts of the conspiracy world, and some churches, were so anti freemasonry.

The purpose of the above was understanding and helping (which I did to some extent even if only helping set up a chamber of reflection, and helping at least one Mason find his way back to the church).

But also..

3. Since childhood I have felt freemasonry to be a fundamental force for good, which is why I once asked you about what you thought my past life experiences with freemasonry were. I agree with your kind response. It is also true (arrogantly) that I once thought that I could help reinvigorate freemasonry in our world, but that fantasy has left me. I do wonder if (again arrogantly) I was/am an esoteric sponsor of freemasonry. If so sadly I now think that it has run its course 🏃‍♀️ in its current format. Though I do appreciate the volume of good work done by the Masonic world. But it (again arrogantly) seems so focused on the external that the internals have been a bit neglected. But obviously that is based on limited first hand experience and my analysis and judgements may be in error.

It seems to me that the relevant energies are now much more focused on individuals throughout society.

[paul]

Many institutions are coming to an end of their viability (in their current form at least) as we move from one cycle (Pisces?) into the next cycle (Aquarius?)

So the tide is going out and people lose faith and enthusiasm

enthousiazein ‘be inspired or possessed by a god’ (based on theos ‘god’)

God-energy has withdrawn and enthusiasm goes too.

Even democracy is needing to regenerate if it is to survive

The task of Freemsonry is to educate humans about their functionality and responsibilities

educo: I lead out

>It seems to me that the relevant energies are now much more focused on individuals throughout society.

This is transitional as existing institutions decay.

The human race has group functions/responsibilities and therefore naturally forums/forms groups to propagate those

Churches tended to be anti-Freemasonry because Freemasons did not need priests or forgiveness.


The Anglican churches I visited in England long ago often had an energy of freedom of thought. Eventually I discovered that at that time about half of the Anglican clergy were Masons and therefore did not mind if you believed in Christ or the GAOTU.

[paul]

>I was/am an esoteric sponsor of freemasonry.

Freemasonry just one of the recent formats used to propagate the spiritual training of humans.

The esoteric sponsors (in human form) typically belong to a variety of potentially useful human organisations - as well as their own inner plane groups

[stewartedwards]

Thinking about it the film Assassins Creed and the game it is based on, do portray Freemasons and Templars respectively as the bad guys. It’s a very popular game (I might have played it once or twice).

What surprises me is that UGLE allowed the Grand Lodge to be used in the film, given they were the bad guys! I guess the money was sufficient. Iirc the masons walked through the Oxford and Cambridge Gates into GL.

[boreades]

I did mention it here

a406.proboards.com/thread/2222/masonic-gold

BBC UK has just released an entertaining series called "The Gold". Loosely based on the true story of the Brink’s-Mat warehouse robbery in 1983. In which three tons of gold was stolen (worth £26 million then and equivalent to £93 million in 2021) 

One of the topics throught the series is that the robbers were protected by bent coppers because they were all freemasons.