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Post by beyond due bounds on Aug 4, 2013 11:41:54 GMT 9.5
It seems that in mainstream Masonry the only secrets are the recognition signs. Thus the secrets exist to protect themselves. Here we recognise applicants to and brethren of the temple in the heavens. And veiling does occur. There are limits to what might be stated other than mouth to ear. Here you go beyond those limits and beyond Freemasonry.
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Post by unconscionable on Aug 4, 2013 11:47:34 GMT 9.5
>So it seems I am at fault here when I miss answering an unspecified question and when I trouble to answer questions specifically put to me. I suggest that it would be useful for you to decide whether the postings are nonsense and delusional before asserting that secrets are being betrayed. Either the postings are nonsensical and delusional and thereby defame the Craft or they betray our secrets. I will neither confirm nor deny which posts are which. Either way they are unconscionable.
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Post by LorrB on Aug 4, 2013 12:09:26 GMT 9.5
LOL The secrets silly. BTW ... I am a woman, you should not be discussing Freemasonry with me either. Ssssh, I won't tell your lodge that you actually would lie to see women admitted into Freemasonry, compliant ones only I can assume. LOL
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Post by Tyler on Aug 4, 2013 12:33:19 GMT 9.5
I do not publicly discuss masonic secrets with anyone.
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Post by LorrB on Aug 4, 2013 13:15:12 GMT 9.5
I was kidding about with you. Loosen up. Play with people (nicely) just a little here and there.
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Post by LorrB on Aug 4, 2013 13:16:55 GMT 9.5
Masonic secrets - and - esoteric freemasonry
... are different things?
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Post by serious on Aug 4, 2013 17:13:02 GMT 9.5
I was kidding about with you. Loosen up. Play with people (nicely) just a little here and there. I am not kidding and I am not here to be loose or to play.
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Post by John Venn on Aug 4, 2013 17:16:12 GMT 9.5
Masonic secrets - and - esoteric freemasonry ... are different things? Esoteric Freemasonry includes our masonic secrets, which are necessary to comprehend the whole.
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Post by Brethren on Aug 4, 2013 17:23:07 GMT 9.5
Masonic secrets - and - esoteric freemasonry ... are different things? Esoteric Freemasonry includes our masonic secrets, which are necessary to comprehend the whole. I once presented an esoteric masonic talk where my familial brother was the only non masonic guest present. Because of his presence no secrets were mentioned but, as he said, it all went over his head, whereas my masonic brethren (including a lady guest from L.D.H. were fully appreciative of what I had said).
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Post by stewartedwards on Aug 4, 2013 18:12:04 GMT 9.5
>Here we welcome all true and faithful brethren of the celestial mansion. >>Including those cowans and intruders upon Masonry you are obliged to exclude from our esoteric knowledge. Fortunately as you have often presented, my esoteric knowledge is not that of mainstream Grand Lodges. Hence there is no difficulty if I converse about such matters with brethren of or aspiring to the celestial mansion veiled by the starry firmament. Which Obedience in Freemasonry permits communicating esoteric masonic matters to cowans and intruders? Well where do I start? There is a very important distinction here that many masons I am told blatantly ignore. Best illustrated by the wording of UGLEs primary tenet - and its definition of a "true" as opposed to an "initiated" freemason. Read it - it is very clear that not all initiated masons are necessarily "true" that is an additional step governed by life actions. Go on read it. Now taking this differential a step further, and I do have a lot, even if admittedly now dated by a decade plus, of experience in this field, it occurs to me that there are the following distinctions:- 1. Masons who see the whole thing as a physical, join a lodge, do as you are told, do a few deals, have a beer, laugh etc. 2. Masons who can feel that there is a bit more to it but cant quite put their finger on it. 3. Masons who might be well connected who hold rank, honours, who talk a lot about their esoteric memberships and probably do contribute a great deal etc. 4. Masons who really do understand the esoterical side of things. Now these people tend to say little, but are often more than happy to interact with people like me. Sometimes silence speaks volumes over the course of hours of intense listening, sometimes they guide, hint, support, other times they accept your advice, or show respect for what you have achieved. Taking the bantering away why do you think that so many masons for so many years globally in person, writing, and on the netbefore I walked away called me "brother"? There is a reason for that that many masons don't like or understand. Which brings me onto my final key distinction, there are masons from what I can gather in pretty much all fraternities, who do understand the divine nature of Freemasonry and don't necessarily equate lodge membership with being a mason. This is supported by the actions of those masons who no longer attend craft lodge due to the bad behaviour that exists in them [hopefully not to many] nowadays, where perhaps cliques form and force good people out leaving less good apples to redirect the lodge etc. Others like Paul said here recently might see things in terms of aiding brothers from past lives in higher orders etc. What I can assure you without any doubt whatsoever, if that when you "awaken" and go knocking, even if a physical lodge door gets slammed in your face, there are plenty of esoteric masons, globally, who are more than happy to offer a helping hand. My lodge rejection (2003?) was perhaps the single most enabling thing that has happened to me in the masonic world, resulting in many things happening in a short space of time, which many masons to this day still disbelieve. But they were not there. Basically what I am saying is that sometimes more inner stuff is clearly recognised. For me as I look back on it all at that confusing time, I just feel honoured than a man who has made so many mistakes in life as I have [though recognise that this has ben an essential part of my learning about human nature and about myself] and saddened that the masonic world is so roughly fractured and too much base human nature has clearly entered too far. Such darkness is at the root of masonic ills and once illuminateld out of the way will enable a reinvigouration of the masonic world. It will also help mend a lot of community fences (the masonic world is no where near as respected in the wider world than it might think - and there are some barmy and some good reasons why this is the case - fortunatley the latter is solveable in a generation or so if the will was there). Finally consider all of the often regarded highly esoteric masonic books written generation after generation even my UGLE masons. That alone should answer your question Esoteric Freemason, even if I am told, rightly or wrongly by a now ex UGLE mason, that the current trend is to close and pressure esoteric lodges into oblivion. Which if true is very sad, for the one institution that could have a decent stab at reinvigourating the global masonic world through inspiration, might be choosing a different path. Which is of course its right. Pity though.
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Post by ask on Aug 4, 2013 18:51:20 GMT 9.5
Once a member, the way into esoteric masonic circles is to ask questions showing you seek more light. If not mobbed, your interest will at least be noted and doors opened.
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Post by 2B1ask1 on Aug 4, 2013 19:06:26 GMT 9.5
Which Obedience in Freemasonry permits communicating esoteric masonic matters to cowans and intruders? Well where do I start? This question is the crux of your post. The answer is that you become a Freemason. Unless and until then you are welcome to discuss exoteric masonic matters but have not business or credibility in discussing esoteric masonic matters. Your misguided presumption in doing so counts against your acceptance, as does you being the only known source of tales suggesting you may be "the one," whatever that means. Sadly while you might have reapplied, I think you have blown any chance you may have once had. If I became aware of enquiries as part of investigations into an application by you, I would feel honour bound to protect the west gate by providing an adverse report. If and when you were accepted, the way into esoteric masonic circles is to ask questions showing you seek more light. If not mobbed, you will at least find doors left open for you.
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Post by stewartedwards on Aug 4, 2013 19:22:03 GMT 9.5
This question is the crux of your post. The answer is that you become a Freemason. Unless and until then you are welcome to discuss exoteric masonic matters but have not business or credibility in discussing esoteric masonic matters. Your misguided presumption in doing so counts against your acceptance, as does you being the only known source of tales suggesting you may be "the one," whatever that means. Sadly while you might have reapplied, I think you have blown any chance you may have once had. If I became aware of enquiries as part of investigations into an application by you, I would feel honour bound to protect the west gate by providing an adverse report. If and when you were accepted, the way into esoteric masonic circles is to ask questions showing you seek more light. If not mobbed, you will at least find doors left open for you. Fear not when I walked away in late 2009 from pretty much all of my involvement with the masonic world (due it has to be said to a mixture of sadness revolving around a religious issue concerning my rejection that a mason publicly disclosed and disgust at a lengthy and intense spat by masons against each other) I decided that was that. Since then I have participated in an open meeting, and been involved here, and not much else. I did my bit (whether you like or appreciate it or not). As a matter of fact re "the one" issue there were plenty of masons present on most of the occasions that came up. As there were with other unusual things that have happened to me, some at meals after lodge, some even in GQS. Just because you weren't there and don't know the people involved does not mean that I am lying - only that you were not involved. Anyhow it all history now. For what it is worth as I understand matters the door is most definitely open to me in a couple of places, but I have also seen so much of its darker side (admittedly a lot of this has come from talking to hurt and ex masons) that I am happy to continue to pursue my own journey. Remember I never asked to be called "the one" to be given the five points of fellowship, to be called brother by acting grand chains [if you doubt this ask the lodge that rejected me they have handled one such letter], to be offered to be made "a mason under the sword" or any of the other things. Your brotehrs did all that, whether you believe it or not. But plenty of masonic witnesses. I wish the masonic world well, and treasure the signposts and keys that it has offered me. It is not as they say for everyone.
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Post by LorrB on Aug 4, 2013 19:38:53 GMT 9.5
Stewie is the one for me, albeit we disagree on some subjects. He has a big and open heart. I call him Brother. His light shows a way.
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Post by LorrB on Aug 4, 2013 19:49:14 GMT 9.5
Masonic secrets - and - esoteric freemasonry ... are different things? Esoteric Freemasonry includes our masonic secrets, which are necessary to comprehend the whole. Rubbish! Were all the saints in all the faiths in all of history Freemasons? That defies reason, upon which you place so much emphasis. Love is the key. Resonance. That special something which is indefinable. Like attracts like. Love is what raises us up. Without love All is lost.... for the time being. For no-one is lost in the end, Love is infinitely patient.
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Post by Esoteric Freemason on Aug 4, 2013 20:06:20 GMT 9.5
Esoteric Freemasonry includes our masonic secrets, which are necessary to comprehend the whole. Rubbish! Were all the saints in all the faiths in all of history Freemasons? That defies reason, upon which you place so much emphasis. Love is the key. Resonance. That special something which is indefinable. Like attracts like. Love is what raises us up. Without love All is lost.... for the time being. For no-one is lost in the end, Love is infinitely patient. Rubbish indeed. Not everything, not every saint in all of history was a Freemason. That is my point. Esoteric Freemasonry is to do with masonic matters, not to everything to which the adjective "esoteric" may in whatever sense be applied. Without truth All is lost.
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Post by paul on Aug 4, 2013 20:07:33 GMT 9.5
....The answer is that you become a Freemason. Unless and until then you are welcome to discuss exoteric masonic matters but have not business or credibility in discussing esoteric masonic matters.... I wonder if the brethren of the "celestial mansion veiled by the starry firmament" would have the same opinion on who might be true and faithful brethren. Traditionally Grand Masters may make a Mason on sight, suggesting that there are quite a number of true and faithful brethren that have not been through a lodge ritual. Humility is a becoming virtue.
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Quod gratis asseritur, gratis
Guest
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Post by Quod gratis asseritur, gratis on Aug 4, 2013 20:20:30 GMT 9.5
....The answer is that you become a Freemason. Unless and until then you are welcome to discuss exoteric masonic matters but have not business or credibility in discussing esoteric masonic matters.... I wonder if the brethren of the "celestial mansion veiled by the starry firmament" would have the same opinion on who might be true and faithful brethren. Traditionally Grand Masters may make a Mason on sight, suggesting that there are quite a number of true and faithful brethren that have not been through a lodge ritual. Humility is a becoming virtue. “False humility is more insulting than open pride!” - Brandon Mull.
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Post by John J. Robinson on Aug 4, 2013 20:28:00 GMT 9.5
Traditionally Grand Masters may make a Mason on sight, suggesting that there are quite a number of true and faithful brethren that have not been through a lodge ritual. The rare and controversial practice of G.M.s making a Mason at sight, simply entitles them to be party to esoteric masonic matters. It does not by itself bestow the knowledge.
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Post by stewartedwards on Aug 5, 2013 3:40:29 GMT 9.5
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