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Post by LorrB on Jul 31, 2013 13:35:51 GMT 9.5
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Post by LorrB on Jul 31, 2013 13:52:51 GMT 9.5
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Post by LorrB on Jul 31, 2013 13:53:35 GMT 9.5
Legitimate or illegitimate ?
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Post by paul on Jul 31, 2013 14:16:42 GMT 9.5
>many Blue Lodges are not equipped to Mentor the new Mason who expresses esoteric interests in the Craft
That is a true statement.
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Post by stewartedwards on Jul 31, 2013 19:36:59 GMT 9.5
>many Blue Lodges are not equipped to Mentor the new Mason who expresses esoteric interests in the Craft That is a true statement. More to the point, as was adequately witnessed on masonic and conspiracy forums between 2000-2009 when I was an active participant, given that so many masons have so much visible problems in following the tenets, then it might just be a good thing, for if you cant get the basics right....... That said I do struggle to find such poor behaviour being visible at actual lodge and other meetings that I have attended [though sufficient numbers of ugle masons have told me about what can and does happen especially at the bar]. But on the internet, sometimes it can be a stretch to relate the tenets to written words. So keeping esoterics away in other related orders is perhaps not a bad thing. What really saddened me was when an ugle masons shook my hand at a function [London Lunchtimes for anyone who is interested], looked into my eyes, and told me that [ or something to the effect of] he no longer attends ugle craft lodges due to the behaviour there, and only goes to the esoteric and other side/higher orders where behavioural standards are better. Sadly other conversations with masons have reinforced this view.
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Post by paul on Jul 31, 2013 19:51:00 GMT 9.5
I belong to a particularly harmonious craft lodge but that lodge was not always so. I believe a major cause is that there is an exceptionally good secretary who has a son and son-in-law in the same lodge. And his wife used to do the suppers for some years. There are also some other father-son and uncle-nephew pairs.
I suggest that Masonry is essentially a family business and that without that quality it may struggle.
The higher orders are generally more harmonious, partly because the brethren know each other from past lives.
I was watching a Grand Lodge ritual team prepare a few months ago and it occurred to me that they were there not for Masonry but rather that they were used to working ritual together in past lives in monasteries and liked being together again.
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Post by stewartedwards on Jul 31, 2013 20:29:47 GMT 9.5
The higher orders are generally more harmonious, partly because the brethren know each other from past lives. I can see that Paul. The other thing that I have found through my wanderings is that the masonic world (though I think more so in the 19th century than now) has left energy signposts to help guide the way of people who stumble across them. A couple of examples: 1. I was once interacting with an ugle mason on the net and who I once met who directed me to a web page on Anubis. I was so connected to it that I decided to visit Oxford Universitys Egyptian library to see the original text that was being referred to on the website. When there I found that it came from a book about Freemasonry written 100 years ago, and as soon as I flicked that book (and that was all I had to do) I knew that I was indeed on the right track. The connection was strong. 2. I once purchased a copy of Morals and Dogma. I had ummed and ahhed for a while but masons were discussing it and in the end I caved in and bought it. Again I only had to flick it to know that there was a strong connection with some of the underlying knowledge. Iirc I read the first few chapters fairly conscientiously and then flicked the rest until the last chapter, when I thought "Oh my god I know this, I have been here before." it was at that point I knew that here and now I should not be reading that text. Why? Because it was wrong - it had been distributed to certain people for a reason, and while I felt comforted, it also felt wrong to read it. So I put it back on the shelf before eventually selling it. 3. In the past I have followed "gut feelings" for want of a better phrase and got myself into unusual situations in masonic environments as a result. There are plenty of other examples. So to me, one of the biggest powers of Freemasonry is how it can touch hearts globally, and act both as a signpost and a key, for those whose energies resonate. And sadly it seems to me that this has been lost to many masons today.
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Post by paul on Aug 1, 2013 8:03:47 GMT 9.5
> it seems to me that this has been lost to many masons today.
The decline in mainstream Masonry may turn out to be a benefit, clearing the ground for a renewal based on the spiritual functions of humanity.
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Post by mgc on Aug 2, 2013 0:06:45 GMT 9.5
yeah, yeah, were all nuts. "genuine understanding of Freemasonry" "No one may authoritatively declare what the symbolism of Freemasonry means"
then how did we get to a genuine understanding? or r u implying that the only genuine understanding is speculation?
" if anyone chooses to publish their opinions they should be able substantiate them." there is no law that requires u substantiate your opinion. as long as its speculation, there need not be proof. maybe u r wrong.
" the Age of Rational Enlightenment." do as u preach.
"mental health" calling other ppl crazy is impolite. u may want to express your opinion in a different manner.
"delete posts not for vulgarity or abuse" i found this post rather abusive.
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Post by stewartedwards on Aug 2, 2013 1:41:41 GMT 9.5
MGC
The last time I looked at the forum homepage 263 people had viewed this forum in the last 24 hours. Some of them will be scratching their heads at some of the things discussed on here. Others will be thinking something like, "but this sort of thing has been published by masons for over a hundred years so what are they getting so hot under the collar about," and others might be comparing the behaviour of some visitors against the likes of UGLEs primary tenet and asking difficult questions. Most probably don't really care and just read what interests them.
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Post by VISITOR WARNING on Aug 2, 2013 3:31:21 GMT 9.5
MGC "but this sort of thing has been published by masons for over a hundred years so what are they getting so hot under the collar about," Things like alien founders from Sirius? Talking to cars? Thoughts being stolen / implanted? Riding on unicorns? Bigfoot? And so on... Where people speculate about Freemasonry there needs to be a right of reply. B.T.W. what is the primary right tenet to which you refer? Tolerance? If so, not so. We do not tolerate the intolerable. But you already know that. As a further B.T.W. Why do you think visitor numbers have increased? It could be like voyeurs checking out and laughing at those in Bedlam.
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Post by VISITOR WARNING on Aug 2, 2013 3:34:47 GMT 9.5
"mental health" calling other ppl crazy is impolite. u may want to express your opinion in a different manner. "delete posts not for vulgarity or abuse" i found this post rather abusive. Calling a spade a spade is to speak the truth. Masons are taught not to prevaricate.
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Post by mgc on Aug 2, 2013 3:59:04 GMT 9.5
"genuine understanding of Freemasonry" "No one may authoritatively declare what the symbolism of Freemasonry means"
then how did we get to a genuine understanding? or r u implying that the only genuine understanding is speculation?
u chose to ignore the serious questions?
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Post by stewartedwards on Aug 2, 2013 5:18:33 GMT 9.5
Our world needs more laughs. It would be a better place. Fortunately I don't mind being laughed at It is probably a good job that I am not of Royal blood for if I were I would be petitioning the Duke of Kent to get him to recommend me as his replacement. One of the first things I would do is say "ok chaps not much is going to change so don't panic" for I am more of an evolutionary than a revolutionary. But I would be asking that masons thought a bit more about the precise wording of the tenets, and asking themselves if they really are achieving those goals as often as they could. Why? because they matter. And if after guidance, encouragement etc some continued to ignore them they would be shown the door as gently as possible, even if I wanted to throw the book at them. Now your GL may have different tenets and that is ok for the masonic world is somewhat diversified around our globe. But if masons cant do what they promise to do then no wonder it is in the state that it is in. And it does matter, for examples get set and people follow them and darkness penetrates. Its a bad negative cycle to fall into. Having fallen into darkness myself in the past I do sympathise. Quite sad really. Now it might just be that I have met some right nutters in Freemasonry but I really do think that if you had been present at some of the meetings I was invited to a decade plus ago you would have a heart attack. But for me, it helped enable my personal development somewhat by giving me confidence that I was not slowly going insane. And some of those chains and ordinary masons clearly knew me far better than I knew myself. So who do I believe? Them, the people here, the books written by masons, or you a nameless person who has an agenda to be a warrior, judge and jury for a masonic forum that does help people globally as I have explained before? I don't doubt that many masons agree with you, but the masonic world is a wide deep place, and that is part of its beautiful strength.
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Post by paul on Aug 2, 2013 6:12:15 GMT 9.5
It seems that the meaning of Esoteric in the title of this forum is not well understood.
es·o·ter·ic [es-uh-ter-ik] adjective 1. understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest; recondite: poetry full of esoteric allusions. 2. belonging to the select few. 3. private; secret; confidential. 4. (of a philosophical doctrine or the like) intended to be revealed only to the initiates of a group: the esoteric doctrines of Pythagoras.
How would there be a "right of reply" by the non-esoteric?
Would that reply be by a spokesman for exoteric Masonry?
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Post by paul on Aug 2, 2013 6:48:17 GMT 9.5
I used to watch the TV series Wheeler Dealers en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheeler_DealersThe buyer Mike Brewer on quite a number of occasions would refer to a car talking to him. And he would sometimes say: "This car is not talking to me" and would not buy it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Brewer_(television_presenter)Talking to cars is more popular amongst women. I recall a woman who said that the car saved her life on one occasion by refusing to drive into an intersection. And that same car would find ways through the inner suburbs that the woman did not know. She would know the route was there but not know how to use it. She would tell the car to find it and it would. The car also would find scarce car parks when asked. Perhaps the yin mind is required when talking to cars. a406.proboards.com/thread/1036/yin-mind
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Post by paul on Aug 2, 2013 7:01:09 GMT 9.5
u chose to ignore the serious questions? Our poster of innumerable names does seem to avoid the more profound topics. I am reminded of one of the slogans of George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four.
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Post by LorrB on Aug 2, 2013 10:26:08 GMT 9.5
If people come to laugh at us as our 'visitor' suggests, then we must look on the bright side... we have more people coming to visit us. Here is a little something for those that eyes that see.
We take great pride in this forum because we in fact do "love one another" and recognise each other as fellow pupils - fellow travellers.
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Post by paul on Aug 2, 2013 12:21:08 GMT 9.5
>If people come to laugh at us as our 'visitor' suggests,
There are only two such that I know of.
I seem to recall a poster who messaged that he found this site "deeply nourishing". It is better therefore to put up with some comedians rather than miss those who seek the hidden mysteries of nature and science.
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Post by paul on Aug 2, 2013 20:48:18 GMT 9.5
laugh with or laugh at?
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