THOATF

[stepnwolf]

This picture of le Comte de Saint Germain, or one like it, was once displayed in many LL of Le Droit Humain as representative of THOATF, styled the Head Of All True Masons. Is this concept masonic; were the powers in Paris correct in ordering its removal?

At my Initiation I was told that it was the Count, no bones about it. I suspect other attributions were made later to soothe the unbelievers' indignation. The only L. I visited where it didn't appear was in Marie Deraismes L, NYC, one of the few LL remaining from the time of the Federation's main founder, Louis Goaziou. Of course it never appeared in mainline LL.

The Australian Federation is to be commended for its steadfastness in the storms of the early 21st century. Without THOATF's picture, they have persevered in being true to their O.

[LorrB]

... we just moved ours to the library Handsome fellow. I'm quite a fan of his whatever the truth of his life story. Another Leonardo Da Vinci re talents by all accounts.

[LorrB]

ONLY a mystic could write, and none but mystics can gauge, words so potent in their meaning, treating as they do of those great mysteries that are unfolded, in their entirety, only to the Initiated. The "Veil of Isis" ever hides the earnest student of the Great Science from the vulgarly curious; hence in approaching the philosophic and mystic side of this mysterious life the difficulties of research become even more complicated by reason of that veil which hides this Initiate from the outer world. Glimpses of knowledge rare among men; indications of forces unknown to the "general"; a few earnest students, his pupils, striving their utmost to permeate the material world with their knowledge of the unseen spiritual life; such are the signs that surround the Comte de St. Germain, the evidences of his connection with that great Centre from which he came. No startling public movement springs up, nothing in which he courts the public gaze as leader, although in many societies his guiding hand may be found.

In modern Freemason literature the effort is made to eliminate his name, and even, in some instances, to assert that he had no real part in the Masonic movement of the last century, and was regarded only as a charlatan by leading Masons. Careful research, however, into the Masonic archives proves this to be untrue; indeed, the exact contrary can be shown, for M. de St. Germain was one of the selected representatives of the French Masons at their great convention at Paris in 1785.

www.sacred-texts.com/sro/csg/csg08.htm

The whole book here
www.sacred-texts.com/sro/csg/index.htm

[LorrB]

The "Veil of Isis" ever hides the earnest student of the Great Science from the vulgarly curious; hence in approaching the philosophic and mystic side of this mysterious life the difficulties of research become even more complicated by reason of that veil which hides this Initiate from the outer world. Glimpses of knowledge rare among men; indications of forces unknown to the "general"; a few earnest students, his pupils, striving their utmost to permeate the material world with their knowledge of the unseen spiritual life;

Isis, The Widow.
Veils.
Spiritual life - The Centre.

[LorrB]

So what was all the traveling about? Did he take pride in manipulating the rich rulers of every country, or was he busy sowing the seeds of an underground order? During his life Saint-Germain was a known illmunisist, freemason, and Knight Templar. The memoirs of Cagliostro tell of how he was initiated into the Knights Templar by the hands of Comte de Saint Germain. He is also certainly know to be part of the Rosicrucian Order and with their infatuation with Alchemy, it wouldn't unreasonable to assume he was the head of that order.

There was a lot of mystery surrounding Count de Saint Germain's death in 1784. No one even really knows how he died and his closest companion Prince Charles of Hesse Cassel kept quiet about the whole ordeal. It is said that the Count was feeling sad and bored and he was tired of life. Could he have faked his own death or had his alleged elixir of life finally run its course after a few hundred or thousand years?

Throughout his life the count was never said to have aged. After he supposedly died, he was spotted all over Europe for a couple hundred years, many times by very notable figures such as Madame de Genlis, Countess de Adhemar, and Franz Gaffer.

He was also spotted in France during the French Revolution, where there was a great convention of Freemasons. Certain documents point to Saint-Germain heading the convention while other colleagues were present such as Cogliostro, Mesmer and Saint-Martin. This was around the time the French Monarchy was overthrown.

www.ancientmonks.com/mystical-order-of-neglected-knowledge/5th-degree-high-priest-chevelier/count-de-saint-germain---master-alchemist

[LorrB]

"This pupil of Hindu and Egyptian hierophants, this holder of the secret knowledge of the East," theosophist Madam Blavatsky says of him, "was not appreciated for who he was. The stupid world has always treated in this way men who, like Saint-Germain, have returned to it after long years of seclusion devoted to study with their hands full of the treasure of esoteric wisdom and with the hope of making the world better, wiser and happier."

www.crystalinks.com/stgermain.html

.. told you I was a fan

[Rakcozi]

Please specify what the letters T.H.O.A.T.F. stand for.

[stewartedwards]

There is an interesting tangent to this.

UGLE amity freemasons in my experience may on the whole not like the concept of the Head of All True Freemasons much, yet within their own primary tenet lies a definition of what a true freemason should do. And lets face it even on the masonic internet there is clear evidince of many people failing that tenet. Yet when you talk to ugle masons about it, often you are told things like "things dont work that way - every mason is a true mason" which in a way clearly is correct. Yet ugle, and I assume many of its amity GLs, have it defined in its primary tenet. This implies that not every initiated freemason is a true freemason, and is adequately evidinced when masons repeatedly show intolerance. Now taking this a step further those masons that are true could easily find it easier to connect with esoterics and the picture of The Head of All True Freemasons then takes on a clearer perspective.

But what could I a masonic reject possibly know?

[Rakcozi]

Feb 15, 2013 18:30:03 GMT 9.5 stewartedwards said:

UGLE amity freemasons in my experience may on the whole not like the concept of the Head of All True Freemasons much, yet within their own primary tenet lies a definition of what a true freemason should do.

That does not include belief in T.H.O.A.T.F.

[Rakcozi]

Feb 15, 2013 18:30:03 GMT 9.5 stewartedwards said:

But what could I a masonic reject possibly know?

Then why comment?

[Rakcozi]

Feb 15, 2013 7:23:20 GMT 9.5 LorrB said:

... we just moved ours to the library

Why?

[stewartedwards]

Feb 15, 2013 18:38:47 GMT 9.5 @Rakcozi said:

Feb 15, 2013 18:30:03 GMT 9.5 stewartedwards said:

But what could I a masonic reject possibly know?

Then why comment?

Because different perspective are always valuable, and when you only consider one perspective bad decisions tend to get made in life.

And whether you like it or not a fair number of masons have confirmed to me that I am on the right track so to speak in what I have done over the years.

[Rakcozi]

It was you that raised doubt concerning your ability to contribute meaningfully.

[paul]

Smithee,

Politeness costs nothing. It may even earn some good karma. What goes around comes around.

[Alan]

Feb 15, 2013 19:42:19 GMT 9.5 paul said:

Smithee,

Politeness costs nothing. It may even earn some good karma. What goes around comes around.

Please do not be pompously patronizing.

Truth is invaluable. If you have a specific objection to something I posted please state exactly what it is.

[paul]

Smithee,

If your intellect and truth-knowing abilities are greater than those that you meet here, you must have discovered that sugar catches more flies than vinegar.

Please act accordingly.

[Alan]

Feb 16, 2013 5:57:50 GMT 9.5 paul said:

Smithee,

If your intellect and truth-knowing abilities are greater than those that you meet here, you must have discovered that sugar catches more flies than vinegar.

Please act accordingly.

Enough with the sarcastic cliches. I am not here to catch flies.

Please state any specific objections.

[paul]

Smithee

The posters here follow a god of love. Do you follow a god of love?

[skeptic]

Feb 16, 2013 12:14:05 GMT 9.5 paul said:

Smithee

The posters here follow a god of love. Do you follow a god of love?

Do the posters here follow a god of love? Personally I do not presume to know the existence let alone the nature of God.

[paul]

There is a hymn used in Holy Royal Arch that says that when you have seen God, faith and hope fall away and all that is left is love (charity).

Quite a lot of humans claim to have had that experience.

Should a skeptic hope that such experience is illusory and that Life has no meaning?