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Post by paul on Feb 1, 2013 19:34:35 GMT 9.5
"People who insist on telling their dreams are among the terrors of the breakfast table.” This attitude to dreams strikes me as unusual. Many of us will have had dreams that involved other people that we know - perhaps continuing relationships separated by time or space and perhaps giving some glimpses of future events. Living as humans do across at least 3 worlds (physical, emotional and mental) it seems natural that intelligent and purposeful life goes on while the body sleeps. And where better to comprehend the veiled memories of the night before than immediately afterwards with one's family! |
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Post by Dom Helder Camara on Feb 1, 2013 19:48:17 GMT 9.5
To dream is ambiguous. It can mean the wakeful and positive imagination manifesting and communicating a vision for the future, as with Martin Luther King Jr. Or it can simply mean the confused detritus of the mind at sleep, rummaging through recent events.
"When we are dreaming alone it is only a dream. When we are dreaming with others, it is the beginning of reality."
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Post by stepnwolf on Feb 2, 2013 4:51:11 GMT 9.5
You can quote me, “to know fully another human being, you must also know his dreams.” To find terror or boredom in the activity suggests a basic disinterest in other people and perhaps a preoccupation with self.
There are cultures that promote sharing dreams with others, over the breakfast table or not. Sharing of dreams can have a cohesive effect on society and develop a sensitivity to others. If that isn't your scene, you might avoid having breakfast with dreamers.
In psychotherapy “dream work” can be an important tool in entering the “the royal road to the unconscious,” as Freud would have it. It is an act of kindness, if nothing else, to help someone enter that road.
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Post by paul on Feb 2, 2013 6:23:03 GMT 9.5
Many years ago I was running a workshop for about 24 people. It started on Saturday evening and on the Sunday morning I asked about dreams. As we went around the circle I observed that everyone had either dreamed of others in the group or been dreamed of. Everyone was accounted for.
Did the workshop continue out of the body?
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Post by nightmare on Feb 3, 2013 15:10:00 GMT 9.5
Did the workshop continue out of the body? No but the dreamers were ruminating over recent events. |
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Post by paul on Feb 3, 2013 20:26:10 GMT 9.5
... No but the dreamers were ruminating over recent events. I don't know what evidence you might have for that. I did not disclose the content of the various dreamings. In that particular establishment I recall a 14 year member telling me that she did not know why she went to committee meetings. If the committee decided something then it did not happen. If the committee could not decide then the next morning it was clear a decision had been made. Everyone on the committee woke up knowing what the decision was but not who had made it. |
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Post by LorrB on Feb 3, 2013 20:51:51 GMT 9.5
I am given instructions in dreams on and off ... they have proved most beneficial to date.
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Post by workshop on Feb 3, 2013 21:11:23 GMT 9.5
... No but the dreamers were ruminating over recent events. I don't know what evidence you might have for that. I did not disclose the content of the various dreamings. My observation was based on you having said. Many years ago I was running a workshop for about 24 people. It started on Saturday evening and on the Sunday morning I asked about dreams. |
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Post by paul on Feb 4, 2013 7:26:48 GMT 9.5
I must admit that I struggle a bit to perceive the dream content of the group members after all that time. I get a sense of an existing group of souls meeting up on the outer but their agenda for meeting are not very clear to me.
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Post by Ruminator on Feb 4, 2013 9:50:42 GMT 9.5
All you claimed was that night "....everyone had either dreamed of others in the group or been dreamed of...." A claim consistent with members ruminating over recent events.
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Post by paul on Feb 4, 2013 10:15:50 GMT 9.5
Consistent = evidence? Permit me to be a skeptic.
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Post by paul on Feb 4, 2013 12:03:10 GMT 9.5
Meanwhile the title of the thread reminds me of one valuable dream.
A work colleague dreamed a set of numbers and woke up then wrote them down. The next day he bet on those numbers in a lottery and won about a days pay.
He said that the winning amount was insufficient and therefore concluded that dreams had no value.
An alternative tactic may have been to ask for more dreams, but each chooses his own path.
A couple of months later he was taken in hand by one of our typists, about half his age, who took him along to a fundamentalist church and later married him. Perhaps that was better than valuing dreams.
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Post by non sequitur on Feb 4, 2013 12:44:39 GMT 9.5
Consistent = evidence? Permit me to be a skeptic. Your question does not follow. I was explaining how a statement was based on a statement of yours. |
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Post by stepnwolf on Feb 4, 2013 21:58:29 GMT 9.5
Further thoughts on dreaming. Unexamined dreams do seen to be a worthless collection of images the brain no longer needs and sloughs off. However, when they are studied in any meaningful way they seem to be an effective way of communicating between the hidden, unknown part of ourselves, we call the unconscious, and the human brain (mind). Through that part of the unconscious some call the Collective Unconscious we have access to the ageless wisdom accumulated since humans began as a species. Dreams are one way of stepping into history and acquiring knowledge that is helpful and illuminating today.
To make a parallel: in quantum mechanics (a field I understand only vaguely) it's been discovered that the observer affects the observed at the sub-atomic level. If at that level, why not at any level where dreams are operative? In other words, unexamined dreams have certain characteristics while, when studied, they acquire other qualities, which make dreams useful to the dreamer.
And why should this be so? The easy way out is to say that that's just the way it is. If there is a Universal Mind (omniscient, omnipotent, omnificent and omnipresent, as it is described in the literature), then why couldn't some safeguards be built into the system to protect humanity from premature knowledge of the vastness of creation and the extent to which humanity is a part? Dreams are a way we may tap that vast ocean of knowledge in quantities that won't blow all our circuits.
Which brings up another idea. For some reason, some members of humanity are impatient with the safeguards built into the system. The piddling bits of information in dreams are not enough to satisfy the enormous thirst for knowledge built into us as well. It does seem that they run the risk of upsetting that internal balance with too much knowledge. Some of our greatest occults have ended in the madhouse, because the light was too much for them to handle safely.
The rest of us take note of the lesson of the 1° where we neither rush forward nor hold back from our destiny.
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Post by stewart edwards on Feb 4, 2013 23:33:40 GMT 9.5
The rest of us take note of the lesson of the 1° where we neither rush forward nor hold back from our destiny. Some think (incorrectly) that I rush forwards (most of my "impluses" have come as as final straw after weeks or months of thought - in fact I can only think of one and that was recently where I really was implusive and it shocked me, mind you it enabled me to understand how the business world takes short term decisions over better longer term ones, so it was a valauble lesson). Anyhow "holding back from our destiny" it is far far easier to hold back in ones comfort zone and this is one prime reason why society at a government level is not keeping up with human evolution at an inidividal level (not unrelated to how people are living longer, so powers that be aren't replenishing as quickly, slowing change). Mind you with the current UK government changing almost everything all at once (welfare, the health service, education, policing, relationship with europe, gay marriages etc) our nation is sadly facing the negative effects of politicians rushing forwards while the rest of the establishment and society catch up. To be fair to folk though it is very difficult to get that balance right. I have made both mistakes in my time. Stepnwolf quite a pertinent post at this point in time. |
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Post by Stewart Edwards on Feb 5, 2013 5:18:54 GMT 9.5
This morning I shared one of my dreams with a former teacher in college, and he is/was a Mason. I asked him if they taught him how to feel the subtle energies or to overcome the fears of death... and he explained he did not learn much spiritual stuff there from doing the rituals! As I go to different energy classes and groups like reiki and prana healing classes and sessions! Yes he is part of the USA south Texas area Masonic groups! does anyone have input on where and how to learn to control the subtle energies we can master as humans |
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Post by Stewart Edwards on Feb 5, 2013 5:22:16 GMT 9.5
Oops, was trying to say fixtures, in response to last question through trial and error living life.
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Post by stepnwolf on Feb 5, 2013 5:34:38 GMT 9.5
Dear Bro.
I have no experience in suggesting what you can do to master the subtle energies you spoke of. We are all so different that what might work for me could be useless for you. In reviewing your post, I suspect you may be trying too hard.
Remember the dagger pointed to you left breast. First, we are all blindfolded, wandering about in a state of darkness. The dagger doesn't threaten our lives unless we rush in heedlessly. We are entrusted to a guide who is with us as we endure the trials of the symbolic journeys. The conductor gives us courage to proceed even though blind. This does suggest that a trusted mentor might be in order. While development groups may be helpful, nothing replaces the mentor who can watch your progress and advise.
In the Catholic Church we have spiritual advisers that provide such aid whether you are a householder or have stepped out on the path. For myself, religion has always been a guide and a consolation. This just may not work for you.
Second, I would suggest you review your motives. Are they personal or are they the result of a call of some kind. In my own case the motives were very personal and it was difficult to get beyond them. I am indeed projecting, in case you should ask! In some cases you can storm the fortress and win, but more often (at least in my case) the day is won by degrees, as it were.
And I shouldn't overlook service – to the L. and to the world about us. Service can draw our attention from ourselves out to the Real; it can validate our own existence and make us ready for something greater. To my my mind, wielding control over powers beyond us is the most dangerous illusion of all. It separates us from the real purpose of our Quest.
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Post by paul on Feb 5, 2013 7:27:30 GMT 9.5
>I will say the energies were a heart tether to a higher being and it seems I was raised by unseen forces. But when it happened it was like my heart was going to explode,
A friend had something similar happen to him while showering. He thought the energy would kill him and shouted out: Knock it off you guys!
And they did.
Perhaps some entities are unsure as to the capacity of human systems.
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Post by paul on Feb 5, 2013 7:47:45 GMT 9.5
>does anyone have input on where and how to learn to control the subtle energies we can master as humans There are preconditions to learning the control of energies that progressively become more binding at higher frequencies. These can be summarised as the Eightfold Path www.thebigview.com/buddhism/eightfoldpath.htmlSuch a path of morality progressively improves the quality of the light body through which the energies are managed. Having made significant progress in refinement of the light body it is worth establishing some broader experience of energies. There are many ways to do this including visits to genuinely holy sites and ritual. This broader experience needs to be placed within a peer reviewable framework, i.e. a spiritual science. It needs to be peer reviewable to provide a proper feedback loop and to provide the basis for proper integration in group work. Thus we now need a measuring system. This is veiled in Masonry by the mysterious ladder that appears in various degrees. In the Kabbalah the same measuring system appears as the Tree of Life - although I consider its symbolic structure more difficult to teach. The key skill is to be able to control and identify one's own level of consciousness and thereby be able to measure the frequency band of energies by pairwise comparison. That skill is referred to as Rising on the Planes. Some Kabbalists know it but are wary of teaching it. It was taught in the Golden Dawn for some time. Weak forms of it are commonly taught in terms of visualisation of stairs and/or rainbow colours. Once the level of consciousness can be controlled and measured there are additional techniques required including identification of type of entity (taxonomy), identification of light and dark, and identification of Rays (qualities of energy). With these basis skills the metaphysicist is ready to start exploring - preferably in the company of suitably moral and skilled brethren. |
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