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Post by paul on Jan 22, 2012 5:52:33 GMT 9.5
Certainly. The Tree of Life is an attempt to reflect the structure of God - at least in the Adam Kadmon form.
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Post by brandt on Jan 22, 2012 9:50:30 GMT 9.5
An attempt, and of course it fails at that. I would hope that none would be so vain as to claim that it was perfect an unassailable.
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Post by paul on Jan 22, 2012 9:52:55 GMT 9.5
It is certainly able to be improved. Nevertheless the ToL is a useful map of various lands masses - delineating major energy flows and identifying the individual functions of major cities.
The ToL is even a map of the sephira as they manifest in the human hand.
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Post by sekhmet on Jan 22, 2012 9:57:55 GMT 9.5
An attempt, and of course it fails at that. I would hope that none would be so vain as to claim that it was perfect an unassailable. Me, I would hope that those who make such statements as the above one were actually qualified to judge that, by which I mean that they had actually studied it [at length] and meditated on it [at length] and actually achieved the results of these works. If not, then anything that they have to say about the TOL has no level of credibility whatever.
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Post by paul on Jan 22, 2012 10:07:38 GMT 9.5
Gently now. Each has his/her own path to tread.
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Post by sekhmet on Jan 22, 2012 10:23:12 GMT 9.5
True. But one should not make sweeping statements about systems unless one has actually put it into practice. This is something i have actually done, and I can tell you: I know from personal experience why they call the TOL the "Talking Tree"
The good thing about the TOL is that it enables one to achieve actual contact with the 'Principalities, Powers and Dominions" underlying the visible workd, who them can answer one's questions and lead one to knowledge and more importantly "Understanding" (Binah). Nothing more can be expected of any system: they all take you to the same place.
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Post by brandt on Jan 22, 2012 10:42:59 GMT 9.5
I know from personal experience that it is far from perfect. Since personal experience trumps all else, how do you reconcile this?
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Post by paul on Jan 22, 2012 10:43:39 GMT 9.5
..one should not make sweeping statements.. Might I suggest that the world is full of "shoulds". ...I know from personal experience why they call the TOL the "Talking Tree" .... Are you inclined to share some of the experience? Was that using the Tree at a planetary level?
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Post by paul on Jan 22, 2012 11:35:10 GMT 9.5
I know from personal experience that it is far from perfect. Since personal experience trumps all else, how do you reconcile this? Would you like to share your experience?
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Post by brandt on Jan 22, 2012 11:41:18 GMT 9.5
Yes, during my work I received a vision of what can best (by me) be described as a spiral cloud. I heard a voice, presumably The Voice, that instructed me that human knowledge of the world - its weights and measures - are the key to advancement. All other easy paths, paths that have no scale, are tools to enslave seekers in the material world.
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Post by brandt on Jan 22, 2012 11:43:17 GMT 9.5
I was told that knowledge is the power of God. The knowledge of the world is absolutely necessary to understand the other levels of reality. The human race has grown beyond the need of primitive symbols like fairies and dragons and now has the capability to understand the physical phenomena of the universe without resorting to immature superstition.
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Post by paul on Jan 22, 2012 12:13:57 GMT 9.5
... I heard a voice, presumably The Voice.. I have heard a range of voices. On one occasion I was very deep in meditation and heard a voice and it was immediately clear that it was the voice of God. It was instant, non-mental recognition. Unfortunately I was so deep in meditation that when I emerged I could not remember what He had said. .. human knowledge of the world - its weights and measures - are the key to advancement. All other easy paths, paths that have no scale, are tools to enslave seekers in the material world. I was taught a numeric form of the planes that allows measurement. In the absence of measurement it is difficult to practice Masonic science. Hence the constant reference to the use of working tools in a moral (i.e. non-physical) sense. Nevertheless it is possible to progress without measurement. For example, colour tones comparisons may be used to the same effect as numbers for a range of metaphysical operations. In my experience very few humans have any interest at all in metaphysical measurement. Still, humans progress, as can be observed in world events.
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Post by brandt on Jan 22, 2012 12:19:02 GMT 9.5
Humans progress and regress regularly. It happens. Without measure there is no common language by which to communicate to our fellow human beings.
One can claim that reincarnation is a fact. Of course there is nothing that can be shared on that other than an acceptance of absolute authority to another's word. Solutions to this do exist but not for the combative because no solution other than submission can exist.
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Post by sekhmet on Jan 22, 2012 12:19:41 GMT 9.5
As the Qabalah teaches, "knowledge" is at the level of Da'ath, which straddles the Abyss. There is nothing in this statement that 'transcends" anything the TOL has to teach; in fact it is rather commonplace. I certainly hope you have more (a LOT more) than this to offer in order to back up your statements.
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Post by paul on Jan 22, 2012 12:20:07 GMT 9.5
I was told that knowledge is the power of God. I choose to follow a God of Love (rather than of knowledge or power). There are however other Gods that are just as real.
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Post by paul on Jan 22, 2012 12:21:49 GMT 9.5
..Without measure there is no common language by which to communicate to our fellow human beings. .. I wonder if some of our female posters would like to comment on that proposition
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Post by sekhmet on Jan 22, 2012 12:25:33 GMT 9.5
Humans progress and regress regularly. It happens. Without measure there is no common language by which to communicate to our fellow human beings. One can claim that reincarnation is a fact. Of course there is nothing that can be shared on that other than an acceptance of absolute authority to another's word. Solutions to this do exist but not for the combative because no solution other than submission can exist. It is quite possible to experience the truth of reincarnation, because I myself have had the experience(s). But one must be 'open' to experience. If one's mind is shut as tight as a bank vault to the experience of anything at all, be it reincarnation or telepathy then there is no possibility of any change in attitude. By 'submission', could you possibly be referring to "Islam", perhaps?
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Post by sekhmet on Jan 22, 2012 12:30:46 GMT 9.5
..Without measure there is no common language by which to communicate to our fellow human beings. .. I wonder if some of our female posters would like to comment on that proposition The fact is, is that "measure" is very strongly related to the Feminine. The word itself is rooted in the MOON, (mensuration) which relates to another peculiarly female function that of the menstrual cycle (mensus: month. mensuration: measure) Ma'at is the 'Goddess of the measure". There is a great deal more that could be written about this but I have other things I want to do this evening.
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Post by Henka on Jan 22, 2012 12:31:16 GMT 9.5
I was taught a numeric form of the planes that allows measurement. I am not number oriented, so your numeric classification does not resonate with me. I just can't picture it.
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Post by paul on Jan 22, 2012 12:32:27 GMT 9.5
One can claim that reincarnation is a fact. Of course there is nothing that can be shared on that other than an acceptance of absolute authority to another's word. Some statistical studies are quite interesting. For example, as I recall, one study considered those people claiming to be reincarnations of particular people e.g. Joe Blogs at 35 Cow Lane, Putney in the 1830s. Quite a lot of such identifications turn out to be valid - i.e. someone of that name did live there at that time. Now of those modern day claimants, some proportion had birthmarks. About 90% of those with birthmarks, had those marks corresponding with a known injury of the person whose reincarnation they claimed to be. As if a trace of the injury passed into the next incarnation.
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