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Post by brandt on Jan 10, 2012 13:01:14 GMT 9.5
None of which is empirically verifiable. I recall the Golden Dawn used to have the testing officer inspect the completeness of visualisations by candidates for Adeptus Minor. The GD obviously thought the mental processes are empirically verifiable but such mental skills are not spoken of, perhaps to avoid alarming the profane. I am far from profane. You have just failed to ask the right questions of me.
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Post by brandt on Jan 10, 2012 13:02:06 GMT 9.5
None of which is empirically verifiable. Oh, it can be 'empirically verifiable" all righty... to and by people who are on the same level. You cannot verify "esoteric experiments" with a "mundane mind", any more than you could perform heart surgery with a paring knife and a Skilsaw. If you were really as great as you claim you would at least ask instead of make assumptions.
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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2012 13:06:43 GMT 9.5
I am far from profane. You have just failed to ask the right questions of me. Welcome to the Show and Tell.
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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2012 13:09:27 GMT 9.5
If you were really as great as you claim you would at least ask instead of make assumptions. Let's keep to the topic and leave personal attacks to other fora. No doubt we can all learn from each other - even tolerance.
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Post by sekhmet on Jan 10, 2012 13:12:59 GMT 9.5
None of which is empirically verifiable. I recall the Golden Dawn used to have the testing officer inspect the completeness of visualisations by candidates for Adeptus Minor. The GD obviously thought the mental processes are empirically verifiable but such mental skills are not spoken of, perhaps to avoid alarming the profane. Quite probably. Also, don't forget: the secrets protect themselves. The dogged attitude of "skepticism" and "rationality" displayed by some people could very well be that process at work on their minds, in order to keep them AWAY from the "real thing" in this lifetime, possibly because of "occult misdeeds" in past lifetimes! Don't you think it odd how some people persist in the pursuit of esoteric topics-only to persist in "drawing their skirts away" from the possibility that 'there's something to it', constantly banging on about the lack of "rational verifiable empirical result" when in fact they lack the necessary faculties to see it even if it was there in front of them, and even if they did 'see something", they would then insist it was something else and not at all connected with the experiment! All the while patting themselves on the back for their "rationality"! It is certainly no different from quantum physics/mechanics and all that; if one were to ask "How did you come up with these ideas and where is the proof?" the scientist would come out with a whole lot of incomprehensible jargon and point to a blackboard full of incomprehensible equations. How is this "proof? Only if you are PART of what is going on! Yet these "skeptics" will accept the idea of quantum physics/mechanics and reject the notion of esoteric experiments, even though the two disciplines are essentially dealing with the SAME THING! The only real difference between the one and the other is that the esotericist includes the idea of 'consciousness' in the mix!
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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2012 13:16:06 GMT 9.5
I am still awaiting your methods - control the individual level of consciousness precisely and synchronise with other group members - progressively forming the group light body on the appropriate planes - liaise with representatives of the nearby kingdoms of Creation - form clear connections with any system overseers - diagnose the nature of the problem - consider feasible and permissible interventions - adjust the group light body - do the work with love, intelligence and intent (generally in that order). and design so that the experiment can be replicated as precisely as possible. Every event is different. It is experimental in the sense of adaptive management.
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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2012 13:23:55 GMT 9.5
The only real difference between the one and the other is that the esotericist includes the idea of 'consciousness' in the mix! \ This is being recognised in some sciences with the introduction of double blind experiments - to ensure that the operational staff do not colour the events by their thoughts and emotions. As far as I know this has not extended into physics - but perhaps someone can contribute on this. So is the measurement of gravity affected by the beliefs of the experimental staff?
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Post by sekhmet on Jan 10, 2012 13:27:50 GMT 9.5
It is technically impossible to 'replicate conditions precisely' because conditions are constantly changing and are never the same way twice! F'r instance a psychic experiment conducted when there is a transit of Neptune over the Full Moon in Pisces on that day will probably go very well indeed; the very same experiment conducted when Neptune is not in aspect with any other planet and the Moon is waning in Taurus will not go well at all! So insisting on such things in the face of the facts is simply being "pedantic" and not a little absurd, which does nothing for one's credibility.
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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2012 13:29:33 GMT 9.5
Conversing with respect.
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Post by brandt on Jan 10, 2012 15:43:06 GMT 9.5
Paul et al, I stand ready to be examined but I won't throw the cards on the table for profanes. As an Initiator my credentials stand.
Yes, I expect a high standard of proof or evidence from those that make grandiose statements. False prophets abound. There is nothing that happens in the universe that isn't natural and those that claim otherwise are hiding either a lack or knowledge or another agenda. These things can be studied but not as a side show.
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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2012 15:47:23 GMT 9.5
There is nothing that happens in the universe that isn't natural .. I think we are all agreed on that.
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Post by brandt on Jan 10, 2012 15:54:58 GMT 9.5
I spoke to God and He said read a physics text. That is an indisuputable fact, or should I say FACT.
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Post by paul on Jan 11, 2012 8:11:35 GMT 9.5
Did he say which from which century to choose the physics book?
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Post by LorrB on Jan 11, 2012 8:17:20 GMT 9.5
And you did. Physics possesses as many keys to the Mysteries as anything else. It is simple to see the patterns in physics and so difficult for some of us to understand the math. (me ) I love Fractals! Especially of the Mandelbrot Set. ... I was told once that through It I could do anything. You have no idea now many times I have to remind It of that promise ;D (yes, I know, it is me that is the problem. But it is good to have a laugh with God. Looking around at some of His creation, one has to acknowledge that a sense of humour was involved)
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Post by brandt on Jan 11, 2012 15:19:04 GMT 9.5
I would love to work on the mathematics associated with fractals here. Are you and the rest of the participants to this forum interested?
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Post by paul on Jan 11, 2012 15:27:59 GMT 9.5
I looked at some of the maths of fractals about 10 years ago.
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Post by stewartedwards on Jan 12, 2012 2:21:29 GMT 9.5
I dont mind maths.
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Post by Henka on Jan 12, 2012 2:50:42 GMT 9.5
Count me out. i don't get along with math.
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Post by brandt on Jan 12, 2012 6:18:26 GMT 9.5
Any time.
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Post by stewartedwards on Jan 13, 2012 7:20:25 GMT 9.5
Henka
I dont know if it will help but I always struggled with pure maths, but found it easier to get my mind around when I looked at applied maths problems - how maths affects daily life. A good starting point are the popular statistics books in this regard which explain things like why buses always come in threes (I think that may be the title of one) before looking into deeper areas of maths. While I am no mathemetician I have found that over time it has become easier to feel maths at play in life.
Be warned though you may end up realising that a lot of evidence, even that accepted in courts of law as being undisputable, can be nonsense. I think that the most common way that this happens in real life is called the prosecutors fallacy.
Once you start digging into applied maths it can certainly give you a different outlook and understanding of life.
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