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Post by paul on Nov 2, 2011 8:56:02 GMT 9.5
In Masonry, the various craft degrees have their own names for Divinity.
Are these all names for the Supreme Being, or are some of them better categorised as sponsors?
Some orders refer to the Head of All True Freemasons.
What about non-Masonic orders such as the Golden Dawn that referred to Secret Chiefs?
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Post by tamrin on Nov 2, 2011 20:29:45 GMT 9.5
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Post by stewartedwards on Nov 2, 2011 20:47:31 GMT 9.5
Tamrin
I am not trying to be provocative here, but as you are someone who has stood up against the diktats of some freemasons, re women and esoterics, and who has been on the masonic internet for a long time, do you not think that the idealised view of what masonry does as depicted in your illustration, really represents what freemasons do in our world today?
I mean, many masons get great enjoyment out of the social side, and from having so many degrees under their belt, the networking opportunities etc, but really can you hand on heart say that freemasonry, for the bulk of its members is achieving its purpose, as you illustrated it?
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Post by Henka on Nov 3, 2011 1:44:08 GMT 9.5
Stewart, Masonry gives you the tools. What you do with them is up to you.
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Post by tamrin on Nov 3, 2011 5:45:44 GMT 9.5
Stewart, Masonry gives you the tools. What you do with them is up to you. Spot on. Thanks Henka. |
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Post by LorrB on Nov 3, 2011 7:55:54 GMT 9.5
Two of my favourite officers in a lodge are the Deacons.
Whenever there is a 'step forward' to be made, you will find one by your side, to guide and lead, and also act on your behalf should the need arise.
I have found this to be very true in my life's journey (outside the lodgeroom).
Whenever the need arises, I am given concrete information via non concrete means. For me, that is via the dream state, or rather that state which is like a dream but totally lucid. I always follow that sort of advice and have never been let down.
I do believe that Freemasonry as a whole is likewise sponsored. The Lauderdale Ritual makes direct reference to the Head of All True Freemasons throughout the world. A possible reference to the Comte de St Germaine?
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Post by LorrB on Nov 3, 2011 7:59:18 GMT 9.5
Secret Societies
Secret societies were the fashion in pre-revolutionary France, and some of them recognized Saint-Germain as an 'adept' one who knew the ancient wisdoms hinted at in the rites of the Freemasons, Rosicrucians and Knights Templars.
He influenced Freemasonry and the secret societies, though many modern masons have denied this and have even omitted to mention him as a great source of inspiration.
In Vienna he took part in the foundation of the Society of Asiatic Brothers and of the Knights of Light, who studied alchemy; and it was he who gave Mesmer his fundamental ideas on personal magnetism and hypnotism. It is said that he initiated Cagliostro, who visited him on several occasions in Holstein to receive directions from him, though there is no direct evidence for this. The two men were to be far separated from one another by opposite currents and a different fate.
All over the country secret societies sprang up. The new spirit manifested itself in the form of associations. Neither the nobility nor the clergy escaped what had become a fashion.
There were lodges for women, and the Princesse de Lamballe became grand mistress of one of them.
In Germany there were the Illuminati and the Knights of Strict Observance, and Frederick II, when he came to the throne, founded the sect of the Architects of Africa.
In France, the Order of the Templars was reconstituted, and Freemasonry, whose grand master was the Duke de Chartres, increased the number of its lodges in every town. Martinez de Pasqually taught his philosophy at Marseilles, Bordeaux and Toulouse; and Savalette de Lange, with mystics such as Court de Gebelin and Saint-Martin, founded the lodge of the Friends Assembled.
The initiates of these sects understood that they were the depositories of a heritage that they did not know, but whose boundless value they guessed; it was to be found somewhere, perhaps in traditions, perhaps in a book written by a master, perhaps in themselves. They spoke of this revealing word, this hidden treasure it was said to be in the hands of "unknown superiors of these sects, who would one day disclose the wealth which gives freedom and immortality."
It was this immortality of the spirit that Saint-Germain tried to bring to a small group of chosen initiates. He believed that this minority, once it was developed itself, would, in its turn, help to develop another small number, and that a vast spiritual radiation would gradually descend, in beneficent waves, towards the more ignorant masses. It was a sage's dream, which was never to be realized.
With the co-operation of Savalette de Lange, who was the nominal head, he founded the group of Philalethes, or truth-lovers, which was recruited from the cream of the Friends Assembled. The Prince of Hesse, Condorcet, and Cagliostro were all members of this group. Saint-Germain expounded his philosophy at Ermenonville and in Paris, in the rue Platriere. It was a Platonic Christianity, which combined Swedenborg's visions with Martinez de Pasqually's theory of reintegration. There were to be found in it Plotinus' emanations and the hierarchy of successive planes described by Hermeticists and modem theosophists. He taught that man has in him infinite possibilities and that, from the practical point of view, he must strive unceasingly to free himself of matter in order to enter into communication with the world of higher intelligences.
He was understood by some. In two great successive assemblies, at which every Masonic lodge in France was represented, the Philalethes attempted the reform of Freemasonry. If they had attained their aim, if they had succeeded in directing the great force of Freemasonry by the prestige of their philosophy, which was sublime and disinterested, it may be that the course of events would have been altered, that the old dream of a world guided by philosopher-initiates would have been realized.
But matters were to turn out differently. Old causes, created by accumulated injustices had paved the way for terrible effects. These effects were in their turn to create the causes of future evil. The chain of evil, linked firmly together by men's egoism and hatred, was not to be broken. The light kindled by a few wise visionaries, a few faithful watchers over the well being of their brothers, was extinguished almost as soon as it was kindled. www.crystalinks.com/stgermain.html |
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Post by LorrB on Nov 3, 2011 8:12:47 GMT 9.5
You may well have illustrated what is wrong with Freemasonry rather than what is right with it. I note that the Freemasonry has made himself a self satisfied prince among men, rather than a humble worker, apron on ready to do what needs to be done. |
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Post by tamrin on Nov 3, 2011 19:18:26 GMT 9.5
You may well have illustrated what is wrong with Freemasonry rather than what is right with it.
I note that the Freemasonry has made himself a self satisfied prince among men, rather than a humble worker, apron on ready to do what needs to be done. Masonry does indeed recognize each of us to be a sovereign prince and strenuously tries to wake us up to this existential fact and to its attendant responsibilities, to do what we sincerely know to be right, without the cop out of relying on the judgment of others. The very notion of a so-called Head Of All True Freemasons is contrary to and corrosive of the empowering, anti-feudal, enlightenment philosophy of the Craft. Life is a quarry, out of which we are to mold and chisel and complete a characterSamuel "Hudibras" Butler "Self-Made Man" by Bobbie Carlyle Man cannot remake himself without suffering,
for he is both the marble and the sculptorAlexis Carrel |
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Post by tamrin on Nov 3, 2011 19:31:08 GMT 9.5
Masonry does indeed recognize each of us to be a sovereign prince and strenuously tries to wake us up to this existential fact and to its attendant responsibilities, to do what we sincerely know to be right, without the cop out of relying on the judgment of others. |
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Post by stewart edwards on Nov 3, 2011 20:39:03 GMT 9.5
Masonry does indeed recognize each of us to be a sovereign prince and strenuously tries to wake us up to this existential fact and to its attendant responsibilities, to do what we sincerely know to be right, without the cop out of relying on the judgment of others. Acting like this in society can get you in trouble though  as we both know well. I disagree Tamrin. This is an unusual thing for me to answer for some of your brothers appear to think that this could be me (the "one" et all from years ago now that you know about). But I would gues that the HOATF would be no more than a check and balance to assist when times are tough to enable forward progress. I would be amazed if any true (and we are talking true not simply initiated) mason who found himself to be said person, or representative thereof (if you were to assume that THOATM was God) would consider him or her self to be "Head", most probably more someone with a job to do who "cared and guided" more than he or she "dictated". In many ways it is no different to a Grand Master, except possibly they may have a stronger direct Divine connection. More like a bridge between earthly lodges and the Divine source. But then again I could be wrong. Just my thoughts at this time. Taking your opinion to the extreme Tamrin, perhaps you should sack all Grand Masters, all honourifc ranks etc? |
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Post by paul on Nov 3, 2011 21:38:19 GMT 9.5
By some views, Masonry and some other publicly known initiatory organisations are only the outer portal for more profound organisations - not necessarily physical.
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Post by tamrin on Nov 4, 2011 5:34:26 GMT 9.5
By some views, Masonry and some other publicly known initiatory organisations are only the outer portal for more profound organisations - not necessarily physical. And by other views, not. Freemasonry is an eminently practical science. |
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Post by tamrin on Nov 4, 2011 5:37:28 GMT 9.5
I disagree Tamrin. This is an unusual thing for me to answer for some of your brothers appear to think that this could be me (the "one" et all from years ago now that you know about). You certainly get a wide range of responses  |
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Post by tamrin on Nov 4, 2011 5:44:55 GMT 9.5
Taking your opinion to the extreme Tamrin, perhaps you should sack all Grand Masters, all honourifc ranks etc? No Mason with whom I am personally acquainted would take kindly to a GM or any other officer presuming to hold more than administrative authority. GMs are but the first among equals. |
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Post by tamrin on Nov 4, 2011 5:55:41 GMT 9.5
But I would gues that the HOATF would be no more than a check and balance to assist when times are tough to enable forward progress. I would be amazed if any true (and we are talking true not simply initiated) mason who found himself to be said person, or representative thereof (if you were to assume that THOATM was God) would consider him or her self to be "Head", most probably more someone with a job to do who "cared and guided" more than he or she "dictated". "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him!" Bear-in-mind that "The Head of All True Freemasons" had until recently been represented by a portrait of the Comte St Germain. But then, by this definition, I am not a "true" Freemason (by my definition, any Mason who needs a "head" is not "true"). |
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Post by stewart edwards on Nov 4, 2011 6:05:55 GMT 9.5
You certainly get a wide range of responses Tamrin, indeed and back in the first few years of this millenium it confused me greatly. Nowadays I just look at it philisophically, as my wife would say "they dont have to live with me" ;D |
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Post by stewart edwards on Nov 4, 2011 6:08:03 GMT 9.5
[quote author=tamrin board=esoteric thread=574 post=8224 time=1320351941Bear-in-mind that "The Head of All True Freemasons" had until recently been represented by a portrait of the Comte St Germain.[/quote]A reincarnated soul possibly?
Being in England I would go with UGLEs definition of a true freemason, which I know you also disagree with, as you explained here extensively previously.
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Post by tamrin on Nov 4, 2011 6:29:05 GMT 9.5
Being in England I would go with UGLEs definition of a true freemason, which I know you also disagree with, as you explained here extensively previously. Please remind me. |
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Post by LorrB on Nov 4, 2011 8:27:19 GMT 9.5
The Centre from which we cannot err.
To err is human.
Clearly there is some indication here that there is That which is beyond our conscious mind.
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as we both know well.