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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2012 5:36:03 GMT 9.5
Correlation with stellar events may be correlation with symptoms rather than causes. There may be more to be understood.
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Post by brandt on Jan 10, 2012 7:21:47 GMT 9.5
Correlation does not prove causality. To that end, a correlation can be made between height and intelligence and many other things that have nothing to do with each other.
I agree that there is more to be understood.
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Post by sekhmet on Jan 10, 2012 9:18:14 GMT 9.5
If any skeptic is lacking information should not the astrologer or telepath correct that lack in discussion. It should be easy. Let's conduct an experiment. I am going to project an image of a cross into your mind. Let me know when you receive it. A very "unscientific' experiment, don't you think? It would be better to project a symbol and not tell the person about it, but WAIT for them to remark upon the fact: "Why do I keep thinking about a cross whenever you are around? One little "left-hand" experiment I conducted a number of years ago was to objectively test whether or not 'consecration' had any active and noticeable effect on the quality of the "mental highlights" produced by a certain sacred psychoactive herb popular with the devotees of the Hindu Shaivite sect... I would present the subject with a "consecrated" sample for their delectation. I would then later present them with another, "unconsecrated", sample (from the SAME 'bud") within the week. When we met up again later, invariably the person would remark on the "high quality" of the first sample ("Got any more of that?") and when I informed them that both samples had been from the same bud they invariably actively REJECTED the notion ("No! Can't be. No way!") The 'consecrated" samples never failed to produce a much more "positive' result for the subjects; one that was always commented upon with a definite quality of enthusiasm, and the comments either came spontaneously or with no more verbal nudge from me than "So, you liked my little gift all right?" The unconsecrated samples produced only the standard reaction, ("Yeah, it was good; thanks a lot!") and, as I said, in every case people absolutely refused to believe that the two samples were connected with each other in any way at all, so marked was the difference in the resulting mental highlights! The spontaneous reactions were what 'told the tale". The same thing goes for 'psychic' experiments. Often, because the subject KNOWS he is being 'tested' the resulting emotional tension immediately shuts down the psychic facility. Any kind of mental distress or upset negates any and all results. I remember taking a psychic test with the symbol cards: a square a star , a circle, etc.; the tester would hold up the card with the back of it facing us and we had to check off on a form what we "sensed' the symbol on the card was. At a certain point, my then boyfriend came into the room and scolded me for "not being downstairs attending to the store" (he was a jealous idiot who was feeling "left out"; I got angry at his behaviour and told him coldly that I would be back down when the test was over) After he was gone we went on with the test, and I made a tick mark next to the point in the test where I had been interrupted, to see if the contretemps had had an effect....sure enough, when the results were tallied, I had done very well up to the point where the interruption had occurred (7 out of 10 on average); after that my test results were very POOR.(they dropped to 3-4 out of 10)
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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2012 9:41:29 GMT 9.5
.. Often, because the subject KNOWS he is being 'tested' the resulting emotional tension immediately shuts down the psychic facility. .. I was in a test group years ago and the fellow running the test said that there was a section of the population that always got too many right statistically. And there was another section that always got too many wrong - as if they were putting too much effort into proving that they were not psychic. Thus the bell curve had tails that were too fat. (Fat tails are blamed for collapse of various financial markets)
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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2012 9:44:04 GMT 9.5
.. Any kind of mental distress or upset negates any and all results.... In my experience antipathy results not only in lack of telepathy but almost an inverse. Thus when antipathy was present, I noticed that even the most detailed discussion resulted afterwards in quite opposite understandings of what had been agreed.
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Post by sekhmet on Jan 10, 2012 12:06:07 GMT 9.5
Exactly right. There are some people whom no amount of proof will convince; the hard fact is, they do not WANT it to be true, (most likely because the thought 'scares' them). This is not a proper scientific attitude, which requires an "open mind", objectively awaiting results "for or against".
Nor can this attitude of obstinate denial be called 'rational", being influenced by personal prejudices, emotionalism and superstitious fear. There are no lengths to which such a person will not go to "rationalize" [sic] any experienced phenomena to themselves, or they will simply pretend it doesn't exist and "didn't happen". The human mind has an endless supply methods of 'denial" available to it, the motive power of fear behind it giving it additional impetus.
It must be assumed that this particular mental attitude hovering in the vicinity will also influence results and outcomes of psychic experiments in the same way that the act of observation affects a situation, or prayer affects the crystallization patterns of water.
There is no a priori reason why psychic powers should not exist; even more fantastical things exist! Did you know that there is water on the sun? It has been scientifically proven as a fact. Google it if you don't believe me. How merely ordinary telepathy seems next to the idea that water is there on the 16,000,000-degree surface of the SUN!
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Post by sekhmet on Jan 10, 2012 12:29:16 GMT 9.5
Correlation does not prove causality. To that end, a correlation can be made between height and intelligence and many other things that have nothing to do with each other. I agree that there is more to be understood. A correlation has been made between nearsightedness and intelligence, two things that have very little to do with each other. It turns out that the gene for nearsightedness is on the same branch of DNA as the gene for intelligence. Hence the stereotype of "a scientist" or "geeks" inevitably includes "coke-bottle-bottom" glasses! It is a Sufic mental exercise to come up with links between things that have no relation to each other. Gematria insists that any two words sharing a numerical value share other qualities as well, and it is up to the aspirant to determine what those are. Crowely describes this and other mental gymnastics in his "Magick Without Tears" F'r instance, the Hebrew letter Qoph is associated with "urine" and the quality of "explosiveness". Somebody once challenged me to find the "common link". I pointed out to them that AMMONIA (found in urine ) in its form of "ammonium nitrate" is used in the manufacture of EXPLOSIVES. (having an endless well of little bits of seemingly "disconnected" mundane knowledge to draw on has always proved to be useful, and no less so in the field of the occult!)
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Post by sekhmet on Jan 10, 2012 12:36:09 GMT 9.5
.. Often, because the subject KNOWS he is being 'tested' the resulting emotional tension immediately shuts down the psychic facility. .. I was in a test group years ago and the fellow running the test said that there was a section of the population that always got too many right statistically. And there was another section that always got too many wrong - as if they were putting too much effort into proving that they were not psychic. Thus the bell curve had tails that were too fat. (Fat tails are blamed for collapse of various financial markets) Yes, I was just reading about this phenomenon the other day. The author described it as an 'internal censor" that rejected the "correct" response and substituted another, wrong answer. These people "got it wrong" even more frequently than people who were merely "guessing".
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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2012 12:51:30 GMT 9.5
There is also a matter of whether the internal intelligences in the human are interested. Many years ago I was in a group that met Maxwell Cade and he hooked me up to his Mind Mirror machine that indicates the intensity of the various brain waves alpha, theta etc. When I was hooked up he got me to do some mental things and some lights went on in each of the appropriate rows. Then he said: the bottom row is to do with healing. Instantly, without any thought on my part, all of the lights in that row lit up. Then I tried to light up that row and it was quite hard and I could only do about half. From that I might deduce that an internal intelligence was alerting me or Maxwell to its capacity, but that it was not under my control.
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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2012 12:54:48 GMT 9.5
...this particular mental attitude hovering in the vicinity will also influence results and outcomes of psychic experiments ... This is a significant issue in the design of inner experiments and of course for inner work. The temple must be tyled.
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Post by brandt on Jan 10, 2012 12:57:06 GMT 9.5
Were exactly is the gene for intelligence. I would be interested in knowing because all the scientists that do study these issues for a living would love to have somebody clear that up for them.
From the Secret of Secrets of Shaykh Abdul al-Gelani. "Look to the stars and say 'Oh Allah, you have not made all of this without purpose'"
We have minds to discriminate, ask questions, and test. Do you fear the test?
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Post by brandt on Jan 10, 2012 12:58:44 GMT 9.5
Interesting, the machines that I have seen are more than a pine box and can be replicated. My offer still stands. Methods and experimental design? Should we just devolve to unfounded accusations or will the results stand on their own?
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Post by sekhmet on Jan 10, 2012 13:59:33 GMT 9.5
Everyone must do the work for themselves. I am certainly satisfied from my own forays into experimentation that reincarnation is a fact, that psychic abilities exist and can be developed, and that the Universe has purpose and consciousness, also that if I am having a problem anywhere, it is likely that I myself am the limitation. "The mind is the slayer of the Real. Let the aspirant slay the slayer."
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Post by brandt on Jan 10, 2012 15:38:48 GMT 9.5
I am fine with you being satisfied. You are attempting to satisfy others. Reincarnation is an opinion as is the rest of the phenomena that you mentioned. If we are engaged, step up to the plate and let's solve the question.
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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2012 15:41:09 GMT 9.5
.. step up to the plate and let's solve the question. Would pistols at 20 paces deal with the irreconcilable difference of opinion?
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Post by brandt on Jan 10, 2012 15:45:15 GMT 9.5
The differences are not "irreconcilable" they are just now being brought out on the table. Unicorns or real study, what do you prefer?
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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2012 15:49:58 GMT 9.5
I seem to recall Shakespeare saying something like:
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamed of in your philosophy."
That applies to me as much as anyone here.
The nature of Existence becomes ever more profound and ultra-dimensional as I enter into it.
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Post by brandt on Jan 10, 2012 15:53:50 GMT 9.5
So stop with the proclamations and let's get down to business Horatio.
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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2012 16:07:36 GMT 9.5
Brandt
It seems that you have never had a thought that you did not own. Perhaps then this thread is not relevant to you.
Maybe some others would like to discuss the topic - how to identify the origin of thoughts that they have.
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Post by brandt on Jan 11, 2012 1:36:13 GMT 9.5
Am I being invited out of the discussion? I was not stopping anyone from participating.
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