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Post by paul on Jul 23, 2012 15:41:37 GMT 9.5
Amos 7:8. And Jehovah said to me, What seest thou, Amos? And I said, A plumb-line.
So what did Amos see?
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Post by jackjack on Jul 23, 2012 15:41:57 GMT 9.5
From a masonic perspective, I think that they would say that your conscience is supposed to be your guide; the problem with this however, is that not everyone's conscience is the same. My point is, some people think it's ok to lie whenever they feel like it; others think it's ok to steal from people who aren't masons; others think it's wrong to do those things.
What's the standard? Shouldn't it be something more reliable then one's own heart and conscience?
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Post by paul on Jul 23, 2012 18:03:48 GMT 9.5
New Living Translation Amos 7 Then he showed me another vision. I saw the Lord standing beside a wall that had been built using a plumb line. He was using a plumb line to see if it was still straight. And the Lord said to me, “Amos, what do you see?”
I answered, “A plumb line.”
And the Lord replied, “I will test my people with this plumb line. I will no longer ignore all their sins. The pagan shrines of your ancestors will be ruined, and the temples of Israel will be destroyed
How can a literal plumb line be a test of people? So what do you think that Jehovah showed Amos?
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Post by jackjack on Jul 24, 2012 7:16:17 GMT 9.5
I think that He was showing Amos the simple fact that He had tested the hearts of the people and had found them to be "uneven", not in conformity to His Word. Worshipping idols is a sign that you have no reverence for God and that you love other things more then you do Him.
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Post by paul on Jul 24, 2012 8:58:38 GMT 9.5
So what was the plumb-line that Amos saw - an illusory image?
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Post by paul on Jul 31, 2012 9:50:58 GMT 9.5
As that last question is too hard, perhaps we might divert to a more general question:
- Do symbols have some verifiable connection to metaphysical processes?
- Or are the meanings of symbols arbitrary cultural constructs?
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Post by LorrB on Jul 31, 2012 10:32:13 GMT 9.5
Still too hard for me.
Muscle testing, how does that work and could we relate it to Amos plum-line?
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Post by paul on Jul 31, 2012 10:45:56 GMT 9.5
Muscle testing involves using the physical body as an interface with another intelligence. You ask the questions and the other intelligence strengthens or weakens the muscle being tested.
Various intelligences may take an interest.
As for the plumb-line in Amos 7, that is used to test for rightness of action. That would require a more specialised intelligence on the other side of the interface. The interface in this case is a "plumb line" but it is not a pendulum as the test is by uprightness not motion.
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Post by LorrB on Jul 31, 2012 11:15:37 GMT 9.5
So if I test for rightness of a proposed action and then fall over I shouldn't go ahead with it?  |
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Post by paul on Jul 31, 2012 13:25:51 GMT 9.5
In practice, when the "plumb line" is on an angle that indicates that the target is not level with respect to origin of the plumb line.
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Post by paul on Nov 3, 2017 7:38:25 GMT 9.5
In my youth I considered many parts of the Old Testament to be symbolic that now seem to me to be literal. Equally, parts that I thought literal now seem to be symbolic, or inventions for theological or political reasons.
The topic came to mind at a discussion evening at which one of the participants was very clear that she believed that the ancient gods were symbolic. I used to believe that too, but the more I read the less likely that seemed. So rather than diverge into a long discussion, I merely said: beliefs are good.
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Post by paul on Nov 3, 2017 7:57:07 GMT 9.5
I have long been interested in the goddess Sekhmet. She is traditionally depicted with a lion head but this is likely an artists' impression rather than an eye witness depiction.  "May the goddess Sekhmet raise me, and lift me up." Egyptian Book of the Dead. Thus a lion goddess is to raise the supplicant, presumably with a lion's grip. Now if Sekhmet is symbolic why is so much peculiar detail added? For example she is She who causes the protection of Wesir in the Abaton
The unique one in Memphis
The mighty one in Dendara
She who sends her knife demons against the enemies of Dendara
Lady of the upper mound of Amun
Lady of the Abaton and of Philae
Lady of Iwat (area near Memphis)
Lady of Kom El Hisn
Lady of Ih (unknown location)
Lady of Isu (location in the 2nd Lower Egyptian nome?)
Lady of Aagt (unknown location)
Lady of Memphis
Lady of Wywy (unknown location)
Lady of Hermopolis
Lady of Wsgwtt (location?)
Lady of the house of the western mountains
Lady of Fd-nwrt (4-threat-town, unknown location)
Lady of Mnwt
Lady of Nbt (unknown location)
Lady of Nfrw (unknown location)
Lady of terror in Bubastis
Lady of the flame on Bigga
Lady of the great flame on Bigga
Lady of Rwty (unknown location)
Lady of Rhst (near Letopolis)
Lady of RXty (location near Mendes?)
Lady of Hpwty (unknown location)
Lady of the light (?) House (2nd (?) Lower Egyptian nome)
Lady of Xfa (unknown location)
Lady of Letopolis
Lady of Xsft (unknown location)
Lady of SAtA (near Letopolis)
Lady of Bigga
Lady of Shrt (unknown location)
Lady of Sehel
Lady of Crocodilopolis
Lady of Stwt (9th Upper Egyptian nome?)
Lady of Byblos
Lady of the acacia town (6th Upper Egyptian nome?)
Lady of Athribis
Lady of Gbst (unknown location)
Lady of TApsw (unknown location)
Lady of Tp-nf (unknown location)
Lady of Dgnwyt (unknown location)
She who is in Diospolis
She who is in the Benben house in Heliopolis.SourceWhat are we to do with such symbolism? |
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Post by fjrogers on Nov 5, 2017 10:24:13 GMT 9.5
When symbolism becomes ingrained in the mind of humanity it seems literal.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 8:48:34 GMT 9.5
>>>> As that last question is too hard, perhaps we might divert to a more general question: - Do symbols have some verifiable connection to metaphysical processes? - Or are the meanings of symbols arbitrary cultural constructs? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< If we were to construct a shape made out of copper wire, and run an electric current through it, would it create a specific magnetic field? If we obey natures laws and create larger forms of the basic shapes, would they not have an effect on the surrounding environment? Could it enhance/amplify ones meditative state? Do different types of clothing/material have an effect on its wearer So why couldn't symbols have an effect - these symbols are often two dimensional.... and dont seem to be a practical tool such as a hammer or chisel, which leads me to believe symbols are designed to bring forth a Thot. How far could this thought be taken? or take outward Water has memory, or could contain a thought www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAvzsjcBtx8en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masaru_Emoto |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 9:06:26 GMT 9.5
In my youth I considered many parts of the Old Testament to be symbolic that now seem to me to be literal. Equally, parts that I thought literal now seem to be symbolic, or inventions for theological or political reasons. The topic came to mind at a discussion evening at which one of the participants was very clear that she believed that the ancient gods were symbolic. I used to believe that too, but the more I read the less likely that seemed. So rather than diverge into a long discussion, I merely said: beliefs are good. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This depends, the Old Testament is mixed with both symbolic and literal accounts The Ancient gods had more detail, in todays terms we are engineered and taught to be literal, everything has a specific meaning to it, typically one meaning to it. In order to explain a complex action or formula, we need to write pages and pages of description and commit to memory. In ancient times we take symbols to explain complex actions, or ideas The art of memory made things easier en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_of_memoryThe ancient gods were symbolic and literal, the literal explains the symbol, and the symbol represents the story(literal) |
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Post by paul on Nov 8, 2017 10:24:45 GMT 9.5
>why couldn't symbols have an effect
When I draw freehand a pentagram on paper I can feel a warm spot in the center. This suggests that the geometric form is energetically active.
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Post by paul on Nov 8, 2017 10:26:29 GMT 9.5
>In ancient times we take symbols to explain complex actions, or ideas
>The Ancient gods had more detail
I have some difficulty reconciling these statements
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 11:06:44 GMT 9.5
>>> >
When I draw freehand a pentagram on paper I can feel a warm spot in the center. This suggests that the geometric form is energetically active.
Is that projection after seeing what you drew? Would a symbol still have its effects if the individual were blind?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 11:34:28 GMT 9.5
>In ancient times we take symbols to explain complex actions, or ideas
>The Ancient gods had more detail
I'm being careful with spiders.. apparently I'm not good at it
- ancient gods were sometimes created to represent different aspects of nature. The Greeks adapted some of their gods from the Egyptians. The older historical representations of the these symbols or gods are better detailed than those of recent times
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Post by paul on Nov 8, 2017 14:49:22 GMT 9.5
>Would a symbol still have its effects if the individual were blind?
Certainly. That is the nature of a symbol. It is partially isomorphic with some aspect of Reality and hence resonates with it.
Just as a TV antenna is shaped so as to resonate with particular frequencies, so does a symbol resonate if correctly formed.
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